Lost some business due to Carrying - Page 4

Lost some business due to Carrying

This is a discussion on Lost some business due to Carrying within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Pete This thread is dividing along two lines, those that understand the concept of tradesmen in the home, and those that would ...

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Thread: Lost some business due to Carrying

  1. #46
    Member Array tapout1003's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    This thread is dividing along two lines, those that understand the concept of tradesmen in the home, and those that would carry a gun themselves but disarm all others.

    The latter is hypocrisy.
    +10000
    "When you reload in low light encounters, don't put your flashlight in
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  2. #47
    Member Array nextlevelcell's Avatar
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    either way, however you look at it. you stood your ground for somehting you beleive in. that is what is important. whether say it was your carrying or whether maybe it is the parts you use in someones home, you beleive in it and that is that.

  3. #48
    Senior Member Array kavity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kd5nrh View Post
    I don't let anyone in the house unless I would trust them with a gun, so it's not an issue. I also don't go in any house where they don't trust me with a gun.

    By the same logic, you should demand that all the stores you shop in be posted no-carry so that you won't have to compromise your safety when you go for toilet paper.
    So do you interview every maintenance man that is about to enter your home and have a 15 minute conversation to get to know them(as if thats even enough to trust someone)? Or do you just automatically trust all strangers if they are tradesmen and you invited them.

    I guess you could only invite people that you may know personally over to your house to fix your stuff, but its that always feasible? No.

    I am not saying I wouldn't let someone in my home who carries. That would be ridiculous for me, a cc permit holder, to do. I am saying that there is reason to be suspicious of a stranger in your home with a gun. I would just ask to see his CC permit--if he is legal then I wouldn't mind a bit. If he's not...that might be a red flag.

    Quote Originally Posted by Protect View Post
    I have little fear of being attacked by someone that is doing maintenance on my home. There is a clear record of who was there and why. If I noticed they were carrying, It might put me in Orange. I'll pay a lot more attention to what they are doing.

    People that make service calls are very vulnerable to ambushes leaving and entering the house to retrieve tools/parts. They often travel long distances, almost exclusively to strangers homes.

    Honestly, I'd be more afraid of someone scheduling an appointment just to rob a repair guy than I would of the repair guy robbing or harming me.

    I have the right to refuse to let anyone in my home, and I will exercise that right if I feel I need to. The mere presence of a gun alone is not reason enough.
    I understand wholly why a maintenance man would carry and I would never deny him access to my home UNLESS he didn't have a valid permit for it. If he doesn't have a permit then he's breaking the law. IMO thats a red flag--he's breaking the law. Then you have to ask yourself "why doesn't he have a permit?"

    If he has a permit then fine. Go about your business.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    I don't appreciate you passing medical opinion on my mental state, you aren't my doctor so don't attempt to be.

    This thread is dividing along two lines, those that understand the concept of tradesmen in the home, and those that would carry a gun themselves but disarm all others.

    The latter is hypocrisy.
    First, I can't tell if that first sentence is in a joking tone or if you are actually offended. (I hope you aren't that easily offended).

    I think you missed my point entirely. I think that it would be irresponsible to whole heartedly trust a stranger(with a gun) in your home...just because hes a tradesmen. I NEVER SAID that I wouldn't let a fellow carrier in my home--I just said that I would be wary of them until they proved that they were legally able to carry a firearm.

    I understand the concept of "a trademen in the home". I also do not stand for disarming citizens.

    I really am shocked at the responses that I am getting to my post. This forum is full of people that are dedicated to personal protection, the protection of their families, home defense, ect. So much so that there is even a sub-forum dedicated to "scenarios" where everyone goes and discusses what they would do in certain situations. Why, if you are so concerned about self-defense, don't you understand the point that I am trying to make? I am not knocking tradesmen. I am not knocking your right to carry. I just think that its a little hypocritical to be as conscious of personal security as most here are--but let someone they don't know into their home with a gun no questions asked.

  4. #49
    New Member Array glock+ipod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kavity View Post
    I think you missed my point entirely. I think that it would be irresponsible to whole heartedly trust a stranger(with a gun) in your home...just because hes a tradesmen.
    It would be irresponsible to wholeheartedly trust a stranger with or without a gun whether they are in your home or not.
    "BBC bias hurts on a personal level, doesn't it? It's like having a favorite childhood relative who turns out to be a criminal." -- My brother.

  5. #50
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kavity View Post
    I thought about this thread some more last night and I came to this conclusion as well. Anyone on these boards that would be A-OK with a stranger coming in their house with a firearm needs to have their head checked. You just compromised yourself, your home, and possibly your family and you lost a key tactical advantage. I definitely wouldn't have reacted like the nancy in the op's post but I probably would have asked to see his cc permit (while going to orange).

    If he had the permit, I would understand and would probably have a good conversation about guns/ccw/ect.

    How many of you wouldn't have been bothered by a strange man in your home with a gun?

    (im sure the ops a great guy, but I don't know him from adam)
    I'm not sure I see the difference between carrying a gun that might possibly be seen and carrying a gun smaller gun that you can't see. I understand the concern for letting someone you don't really know into your home armed, but you can't search every repair guy that comes over. You've probably had plenty of repair guys come over armed. Asking a repair guy to disarm will only disarm the one that intended you no harm to begin with. (sound familiar?)

    From my point of view, however, I HAVE TO BE ALARMED when a stranger calls me to a strange place and then asks me to disarm. I forget who said it here, but repair folks do get called specifically to be robbed. There are benefits to being on the downlow, though.

    Am I OK with joe anybody coming to my house armed? I'm cautious, but I probably wouldn't know it.

    Quote Originally Posted by petercartwright
    Here's a thought: I'm not sure it's a bad thing when the non-carrying public glimpses a "print" or even an inadvertent "flash". (So long, of course, as that doesn't make the carrier legally vulnerable in their state). Perhaps if more of the general public realizes that common, non-threatening citizens are exercizing their carry rights it may, over time, diffuse some of the hysteria around firearms. As one who chooses to carry, I want the public to realize that our behavior is not out of the ordinary.
    I agree with this completely and have mentioned here before that exposure is the key to acceptance. The more people see normal people packing, the more people will pack. The more of us that pack, the safer our carry laws become. (Not advocating being a brandishing, bragging, fool)
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  6. #51
    Member Array FknRa's Avatar
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    I've met plenty of people I didn't know who were wearing guns. Do you freak out when a new person comes to the range and is armed? how about if you come across another person while hunting? If I allow you in my home in the first place then I already trust that you are not there for evil.

    The way you present yourself on our initial meeting will have more to do with me letting you through the door than anything else.

    On the flipside, I belive every contrator has the right to defend themselves as well. Not just the cash they normally carry for parts, but the thousands of dollars in tools they normally carry around.
    To those that paid for my freedom,
    I WILL NEVER FORGET.

    As with all statements I've made and All that I will make, please check your local laws to verify accuracy. (and if i'm wrong let me know as I like to be right in the future) After all I'm just some goofball posting on an internet forum.

  7. #52
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    Kavity, with all due respect. Are you gonna ask the tradesman to strip naked to prove he is not carrying? 'cause he could just simply say "I ain't" and you would not be the wiser. Or you just going to take his word for it and let him come in?
    I schedule work for when I am home. I pretend to find fascinating what they do and some tradepeople must think I am a pest 'cause I am constantly with them talking and watching what they do and their behavior.

    The point is, I don't trust anybody who I have not vetted personally or was vetted by someone I trust with my life and I don't care if the swear in a stack of bibles.

    In other words:

    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

  8. #53
    Senior Member Array kavity's Avatar
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    I guess I am not communicating effectively. I agree with almost everything everyone in this thread is saying. I am done "debating" the issue--because I feel like we all agree..we are just saying it in different terms.

  9. #54
    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kavity View Post
    I guess I am not communicating effectively. I agree with almost everything everyone in this thread is saying. I am done "debating" the issue--because I feel like we all agree..we are just saying it in different terms.
    I have no problem with you Kavity, I wasn't offended, I just didn't appreciate what you said, big difference in my book.
    What you need to know is that you and one or two others are going against the grain and while that is fine, even encouraged, it is something best done with a polite manner and respect. The post of yours I quote above has respect, the previous one didn't.
    When you've been here a few months you'll see that we don't argue about stuff, those that do leave us. We debate, disagree and grind our teeth but we don't get argue.

    It's all part of self discipline and restraint, and enables us to teach and learn a lot more efficiently.

  10. #55
    Senior Member Array dunndw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    What do you do for work?
    I carry in strangers homes, they don't know about it and don't need to. If things go south while I'm working on their premises I will not compromise my safety just because I didn't feel threatened when I entered. I work in people's houses while they are out at work, what if someone sneaks in to rob me of my tools at gunpoint? - it happened here in Nashville two years ago - I can't ask the crackheads to give me a minute to let me get the gun out of the truck.
    +1.
    I've done plenty of work in peoples homes I NEVER disarm. One of the prime examples was one a few weeks back. Between the smell of cat/dog/human urine and pot smoke I wouldn't as much as sit down without getting something on my. Then her "artist" son decides to follow me out to the truck to bum some smokes. I just ignored him and left. Between the aroma and the gang tats and the graffiti in the neighborhood...no gun...no way.
    "If I was an extremist, our founding fathers would all be extremists," he said. "Without them, we wouldn't have our independence. We'd be a disarmed British system of feudal subjectivity."

  11. #56
    Ex Member Array dwolsten's Avatar
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    Ok, this is probably going to stir up the pot, but consider this:

    You live in Michigan. What did you expect? A welcoming attitude towards carrying weapons?

    Here's a couple of tips for you:
    1) Get a Smartcarry holster. I carry a 4" XD-45 in one and it's unnoticeable, even when I'm bending over, working on things, etc. I went to a friend's house not long ago to help him install some large windows, and afterwards pulled out the gun to show him, and he was quite surprised I had carried it concealed for so long and he never noticed. (And no, he wasn't upset I had carried in his house.)

    2) Move to a better state, somewhere in the southern half of the country. Honestly, how are you making any money doing A/C work way up there? I have a tenant who used to live in Vietnam (ex-vet), came over here for a few months during the summer doing A/C work, made $50k, and went back home for the rest of the year. Here in Arizona, there's more A/C work than you can imagine, and most people aren't bothered by guns. Unfortunately, that's changing with the huge influx of anti-gun idiots from Kalifornia, Illinois, and other such places, but if you're gun-friendly, you're welcome to move in and offset these other idiots. I'm a transplant myself (from VA and TN originally), but unlike most other humans these days, I try to assimilate to my new home, instead of expecting everyone to cater to me.

    I've said it before on here and I'll say it again. If owning and carrying a gun is important to you, you should just move to one of the many states where most people agree with you, instead of fighting everyone in some ultra-liberal state. Life's too short to waste fighting with people who disagree with you and want to take away your rights, when it's so easy to just go somewhere else that's better.

  12. #57
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    As near as I can tell, every thing's been said that can be said. Having said that, here's my say.


    LBrombach,
    You handled yourself professionally and I respect your integrity and levelheadedness.
    The way I see it you have 2 options. Continue the way you are now. IE give up the occasional job for the sake of staying armed. Or, develop a carry style that is less detectable.
    Going unarmed in your profession is not an option.
    Either way is perfectly acceptable and entirely your choice.

    As to the concerns of letting a stranger into my home armed...
    I am always armed (when legal). I cannot expect less of anyone else.
    If I don't notice that a service man is armed then he is doing it right.
    If I do notice, I go to orange, ask to see his CCW card and act accordingly.
    He either produces his card or I escort him from my home and report him to his superiors or the authorities depending on his reaction. If he's legal he's welcome.
    I may even have a new range buddy!
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  13. #58
    Member Array jackofspades's Avatar
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    Kavity/Luvmy40

    You both state that you'd ask to see the repairman's permit... without rehashing the whole Show/Don't show a LEO thing..

    Do you guys (in your states, obviously) have any clause in your Concealed Carry laws that state a private citizen can ask to see someone's permit?

    Edit: What I'm trying to ask, is what makes you think he has any legal basis to show you his permit?
    Last edited by jackofspades; June 27th, 2007 at 06:47 PM. Reason: clarification

  14. #59
    Ex Member Array dwolsten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackofspades View Post
    Kavity/Luvmy40

    You both state that you'd ask to see the repairman's permit... without rehashing the whole Show/Don't show a LEO thing..

    Do you guys (in your states, obviously) have any clause in your Concealed Carry laws that state a private citizen can ask to see someone's permit?

    Edit: What I'm trying to ask, is what makes you think he has any legal basis to show you his permit?
    Um, I would think you have the legal basis to ask just about anything of someone who seeks to set foot on your property. If they don't agree, then they can just leave.

    This has nothing to do with LEOs, since you don't have the option of just leaving if you don't like what a LEO is asking you to do.

  15. #60
    Member Array jackofspades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwolsten View Post
    Um, I would think you have the legal basis to ask just about anything of someone who seeks to set foot on your property. If they don't agree, then they can just leave.

    This has nothing to do with LEOs, since you don't have the option of just leaving if you don't like what a LEO is asking you to do.
    I don't think you can.. I know that you can (and should) ask for a work ID, but I don't think you can ask for driver's license/carry permit/shoe size..whatever (the mentioning of the LEO, was so we don't get totally off tangent with "I'd show, its courtesy." and "I'm not required to show LEO, unless they ask" replies).

    Additionally..even if you do ask, why would anyone whip out their permit or driver's license?

    I find it quite hypocritical of us (us being pro-gunners) to gripe and complain about the restrictions put upon our 2nd Amendment rights, and the image of anyone carrying a gun automatically being a BG.. to see people stating that they'd essentially treat a repairman that they asked to come into their home, like a criminal (license and registration please?), for exercising the same right we are supposedly very supportive of.

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