This is a discussion on Lost some business due to Carrying within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Pete This thread is dividing along two lines, those that understand the concept of tradesmen in the home, and those that would ...
either way, however you look at it. you stood your ground for somehting you beleive in. that is what is important. whether say it was your carrying or whether maybe it is the parts you use in someones home, you beleive in it and that is that.
I guess you could only invite people that you may know personally over to your house to fix your stuff, but its that always feasible? No.
I am not saying I wouldn't let someone in my home who carries. That would be ridiculous for me, a cc permit holder, to do. I am saying that there is reason to be suspicious of a stranger in your home with a gun. I would just ask to see his CC permit--if he is legal then I wouldn't mind a bit. If he's not...that might be a red flag.
If he has a permit then fine. Go about your business.
I think you missed my point entirely. I think that it would be irresponsible to whole heartedly trust a stranger(with a gun) in your home...just because hes a tradesmen. I NEVER SAID that I wouldn't let a fellow carrier in my home--I just said that I would be wary of them until they proved that they were legally able to carry a firearm.
I understand the concept of "a trademen in the home". I also do not stand for disarming citizens.
I really am shocked at the responses that I am getting to my post. This forum is full of people that are dedicated to personal protection, the protection of their families, home defense, ect. So much so that there is even a sub-forum dedicated to "scenarios" where everyone goes and discusses what they would do in certain situations. Why, if you are so concerned about self-defense, don't you understand the point that I am trying to make? I am not knocking tradesmen. I am not knocking your right to carry. I just think that its a little hypocritical to be as conscious of personal security as most here are--but let someone they don't know into their home with a gun no questions asked.
From my point of view, however, I HAVE TO BE ALARMED when a stranger calls me to a strange place and then asks me to disarm. I forget who said it here, but repair folks do get called specifically to be robbed. There are benefits to being on the downlow, though.
Am I OK with joe anybody coming to my house armed? I'm cautious, but I probably wouldn't know it.
I agree with this completely and have mentioned here before that exposure is the key to acceptance. The more people see normal people packing, the more people will pack. The more of us that pack, the safer our carry laws become. (Not advocating being a brandishing, bragging, fool)Originally Posted by petercartwright
I've met plenty of people I didn't know who were wearing guns. Do you freak out when a new person comes to the range and is armed? how about if you come across another person while hunting? If I allow you in my home in the first place then I already trust that you are not there for evil.
The way you present yourself on our initial meeting will have more to do with me letting you through the door than anything else.
On the flipside, I belive every contrator has the right to defend themselves as well. Not just the cash they normally carry for parts, but the thousands of dollars in tools they normally carry around.
To those that paid for my freedom,
I WILL NEVER FORGET.
As with all statements I've made and All that I will make, please check your local laws to verify accuracy. (and if i'm wrong let me know as I like to be right in the future) After all I'm just some goofball posting on an internet forum.
Kavity, with all due respect. Are you gonna ask the tradesman to strip naked to prove he is not carrying? 'cause he could just simply say "I ain't" and you would not be the wiser. Or you just going to take his word for it and let him come in?
I schedule work for when I am home. I pretend to find fascinating what they do and some tradepeople must think I am a pest 'cause I am constantly with them talking and watching what they do and their behavior.
The point is, I don't trust anybody who I have not vetted personally or was vetted by someone I trust with my life and I don't care if the swear in a stack of bibles.
In other words:
You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
I guess I am not communicating effectively. I agree with almost everything everyone in this thread is saying. I am done "debating" the issue--because I feel like we all agree..we are just saying it in different terms.
What you need to know is that you and one or two others are going against the grain and while that is fine, even encouraged, it is something best done with a polite manner and respect. The post of yours I quote above has respect, the previous one didn't.
When you've been here a few months you'll see that we don't argue about stuff, those that do leave us. We debate, disagree and grind our teeth but we don't get argue.
It's all part of self discipline and restraint, and enables us to teach and learn a lot more efficiently.
I've done plenty of work in peoples homes I NEVER disarm. One of the prime examples was one a few weeks back. Between the smell of cat/dog/human urine and pot smoke I wouldn't as much as sit down without getting something on my. Then her "artist" son decides to follow me out to the truck to bum some smokes. I just ignored him and left. Between the aroma and the gang tats and the graffiti in the neighborhood...no gun...no way.
"If I was an extremist, our founding fathers would all be extremists," he said. "Without them, we wouldn't have our independence. We'd be a disarmed British system of feudal subjectivity."
Ok, this is probably going to stir up the pot, but consider this:
You live in Michigan. What did you expect? A welcoming attitude towards carrying weapons?
Here's a couple of tips for you:
1) Get a Smartcarry holster. I carry a 4" XD-45 in one and it's unnoticeable, even when I'm bending over, working on things, etc. I went to a friend's house not long ago to help him install some large windows, and afterwards pulled out the gun to show him, and he was quite surprised I had carried it concealed for so long and he never noticed. (And no, he wasn't upset I had carried in his house.)
2) Move to a better state, somewhere in the southern half of the country. Honestly, how are you making any money doing A/C work way up there? I have a tenant who used to live in Vietnam (ex-vet), came over here for a few months during the summer doing A/C work, made $50k, and went back home for the rest of the year. Here in Arizona, there's more A/C work than you can imagine, and most people aren't bothered by guns. Unfortunately, that's changing with the huge influx of anti-gun idiots from Kalifornia, Illinois, and other such places, but if you're gun-friendly, you're welcome to move in and offset these other idiots. I'm a transplant myself (from VA and TN originally), but unlike most other humans these days, I try to assimilate to my new home, instead of expecting everyone to cater to me.
I've said it before on here and I'll say it again. If owning and carrying a gun is important to you, you should just move to one of the many states where most people agree with you, instead of fighting everyone in some ultra-liberal state. Life's too short to waste fighting with people who disagree with you and want to take away your rights, when it's so easy to just go somewhere else that's better.
As near as I can tell, every thing's been said that can be said. Having said that, here's my say.
You handled yourself professionally and I respect your integrity and levelheadedness.
The way I see it you have 2 options. Continue the way you are now. IE give up the occasional job for the sake of staying armed. Or, develop a carry style that is less detectable.
Going unarmed in your profession is not an option.
Either way is perfectly acceptable and entirely your choice.
As to the concerns of letting a stranger into my home armed...
I am always armed (when legal). I cannot expect less of anyone else.
If I don't notice that a service man is armed then he is doing it right.
If I do notice, I go to orange, ask to see his CCW card and act accordingly.
He either produces his card or I escort him from my home and report him to his superiors or the authorities depending on his reaction. If he's legal he's welcome.
I may even have a new range buddy!
You both state that you'd ask to see the repairman's permit... without rehashing the whole Show/Don't show a LEO thing..
Do you guys (in your states, obviously) have any clause in your Concealed Carry laws that state a private citizen can ask to see someone's permit?
Edit: What I'm trying to ask, is what makes you think he has any legal basis to show you his permit?
Last edited by jackofspades; June 27th, 2007 at 06:47 PM. Reason: clarification
This has nothing to do with LEOs, since you don't have the option of just leaving if you don't like what a LEO is asking you to do.
Additionally..even if you do ask, why would anyone whip out their permit or driver's license?
I find it quite hypocritical of us (us being pro-gunners) to gripe and complain about the restrictions put upon our 2nd Amendment rights, and the image of anyone carrying a gun automatically being a BG.. to see people stating that they'd essentially treat a repairman that they asked to come into their home, like a criminal (license and registration please?), for exercising the same right we are supposedly very supportive of.