Lost some business due to Carrying

This is a discussion on Lost some business due to Carrying within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by dwolsten Um, I would think you have the legal basis to ask just about anything of someone who seeks to set foot ...

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Thread: Lost some business due to Carrying

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwolsten View Post
    Um, I would think you have the legal basis to ask just about anything of someone who seeks to set foot on your property. If they don't agree, then they can just leave.

    This has nothing to do with LEOs, since you don't have the option of just leaving if you don't like what a LEO is asking you to do.
    Ditto!
    Legally obligated or not, if you're not willing to prove to me that you're not a BG in my home then don't let me see your carry.
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  3. #62
    Distinguished Member Array Squawker's Avatar
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    While I carry at work, I don't wear it on my belt. I carry a smaller gun, my Glock 26, in a pocket holster rather than my XD 45. I don't want anyone to know that there's a gun on me, under any condition other than having to draw it in defense.

  4. #63
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    Here in Louisiana we have to ask permission before we can carry into a residence so if I were in your position I would have to disarm before going in. I would probably not ask permission and leave the gun in the car if I was there to do work for the person.

    Maybe a small pocket gun would be handy for you in situations like this, it probably would never be seen and no one would question a workman having a bulge in his pocket.

  5. #64
    Member Array jackofspades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmy40 View Post
    Ditto!
    Legally obligated or not, if you're not willing to prove to me that you're not a BG in my home then don't let me see your carry.
    If you think I'm a BG, simply because I have a gun... why did you invite me into your home? I'm there at YOUR request, doing the job you asked me to. Waiting till I'm in your home is not the best time to decide to run a background check.

    (Those are obviously generic "I'm"s, as we're not talking about any individual person....just playing devil's advocate)

  6. #65
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    Lbrombach, I'm in Dearborn. Email me your cell number, and I'll be happy to call you if I need service.

    I would have told the guy that he was lucky he got an honest guy and that maybe the next one would case his house and then come back and clean him out.
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  7. #66
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    I'm glad you stuck to your guns. People like this cannot be reasoned with and would have ragged on you the whole time you were there. I've been in the service business for fourty one years and have encountered a few of these people myself. I just pack it up and leave like you did. I hope your business picks up soon. good luck

  8. #67
    Senior Member Array kavity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackofspades View Post
    Kavity/Luvmy40

    You both state that you'd ask to see the repairman's permit... without rehashing the whole Show/Don't show a LEO thing..

    Do you guys (in your states, obviously) have any clause in your Concealed Carry laws that state a private citizen can ask to see someone's permit?

    Edit: What I'm trying to ask, is what makes you think he has any legal basis to show you his permit?

    Well, I am not sure of VA code on this subject; however, I know the Kavity Code on this subject:

    Any persons on my property carrying a firearm (concealed or otherwise) will be asked to provide legal documentation that they are lawfully allowed to carry said firearm. Persons that refuse to provide legal documentation will be asked to leave and will be escorted off the property. Persons without legal documentation will be asked to leave and may face criminal charges in accordance with state law.
    Thats not word for word out of the code book but you get the idea .

    It's my house. If they don't want to provide their paperwork then they don't have to work on my property. Its simple really. I think most legal cc-ers would provide documentation in a heart beat. And like I said before--if he's legal we could probably have a nice long conversation about guns. Which is always a pleasure.

  9. #68
    Senior Member Array kavity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackofspades View Post
    If you think I'm a BG, simply because I have a gun... why did you invite me into your home? I'm there at YOUR request, doing the job you asked me to. Waiting till I'm in your home is not the best time to decide to run a background check.

    (Those are obviously generic "I'm"s, as we're not talking about any individual person....just playing devil's advocate)
    It's really just due diligence. Just because I invited YOU into my home doesn't mean YOU aren't gonna try to rob me.

    Also, if you have a gun I am automatically going to treat you like a possible threat until you prove otherwise.

  10. #69
    Member Array jackofspades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kavity View Post
    Well, I am not sure of VA code on this subject; however, I know the Kavity Code on this subject:

    Thats not word for word out of the code book but you get the idea .

    It's my house. If they don't want to provide their paperwork then they don't have to work on my property. Its simple really. I think most legal cc-ers would provide documentation in a heart beat. And like I said before--if he's legal we could probably have a nice long conversation about guns. Which is always a pleasure.
    But, why would you feel the need to ask? Because the repair man has a gun? How about if the repair man saw you were carrying while he was working, and asked to see your permit?

  11. #70
    Member Array jackofspades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kavity View Post
    It's really just due diligence. Just because I invited YOU into my home doesn't mean YOU aren't gonna try to rob me.

    Also, if you have a gun I am automatically going to treat you like a possible threat until you prove otherwise.
    It also doesn't mean YOU aren't going to try and rob me.

    By your logic, we should treat all LEOs as threats, until they've proven to each of us individually that they aren't a threat, they have guns. We should treat the folks like Lima working at our local gun store as a threat, they have guns...

    Why, just imagine if some state, like say Florida decided to allow its citizens to legally carry a gun..the streets will flow with blood, there will be gun fights over fender benders, anyone with a gun has to be planning on doing us harm.... sound vaguely familiar?

  12. #71
    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kavity
    Concealed or otherwise
    How will you know if it is concealed? Do you have a metal detector on your door, or do you frisk guys down when they come to fix your garbage disposal?

    It's time to get real on this one and stop playing devil's advocate - when you own a home and invite people in to do work it is a situation built on trust, if you don't trust them to enter it doesn't matter if they are armed or not, if you do trust them to come in it's the same story.

    If you're going to have security clearance requirements to enter your house then honest working men will laugh and go elsewhere to work, us working guys can smell neurosis a mile off, I don't do work for people who are high maintenance because 99 times out of 100 they don't pay the bill, something is wrong with the job or I looked at the cat funny or I whistled the wrong tune or my truck looked bad on the drive ...

    Life's too short to work on people's houses who are delusional, and making me go through 'security clearance' is delusional.
    Incidentally, before I'm asked, I do work on very expensive properties including two ex-Senators, many stupidly rich Lawyers and about every Lobbyist in Nashville.

    I do know what I am talking about here.

  13. #72
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kavity View Post
    Well, I am not sure of VA code on this subject; however, I know the Kavity Code on this subject:

    Any persons on my property carrying a firearm (concealed or otherwise) will be asked to provide legal documentation that they are lawfully allowed to carry said firearm. Persons that refuse to provide legal documentation will be asked to leave and will be escorted off the property. Persons without legal documentation will be asked to leave and may face criminal charges in accordance with state law.
    Thats not word for word out of the code book but you get the idea .

    It's my house. If they don't want to provide their paperwork then they don't have to work on my property. Its simple really. I think most legal cc-ers would provide documentation in a heart beat. And like I said before--if he's legal we could probably have a nice long conversation about guns. Which is always a pleasure.
    Open carry is legal in VA without a permit. So if someone is open carrying, what sort of documentation are they supposed to show you?

  14. #73
    Senior Member Array kavity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackofspades View Post
    It also doesn't mean YOU aren't going to try and rob me.

    By your logic, we should treat all LEOs as threats, until they've proven to each of us individually that they aren't a threat, they have guns. We should treat the folks like Lima working at our local gun store as a threat, they have guns...

    Why, just imagine if some state, like say Florida decided to allow its citizens to legally carry a gun..the streets will flow with blood, there will be gun fights over fender benders, anyone with a gun has to be planning on doing us harm.... sound vaguely familiar?

    That is not by my logic at all. The simple fact that someone is a LEO proves to me (at least) that the individual has passed background checks, ect and that the state trusts him/her to protect and serve me.

    Working at a gun store also requires a background check (afaik). You are really exaggerating and making slippery slope arguments.

  15. #74
    Senior Member Array kavity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    Open carry is legal in VA without a permit. So if someone is open carrying, what sort of documentation are they supposed to show you?
    I thought of that. I would probably ask why he does not cc. Depending on his answer we would go from there. Also, I would not be "suprised" by someone open carrying and I would be able to ask him these sorts of questions before he entered my home.

    Also, I live in Alexandria (Fairfax Co.). It's illegal to open carry here.

  16. #75
    Member Array jackofspades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kavity View Post
    That is not by my logic at all. The simple fact that someone is a LEO proves to me (at least) that the individual has passed background checks, ect and that the state trusts him/her to protect and serve me.

    Working at a gun store also requires a background check (afaik). You are really exaggerating and making slippery slope arguments.

    Most jobs these days seem to require at least a cursory background check. Most big companies (your 'chain' HVAC, plumbers, etc.) also require their service people to be bonded and insured... therefore, they've passed background checks.

    Still doesn't answer the question. We (again, we being pro-gunners) want to encourage people to utilize their second amendment rights, and want more people carrying to get the used to it so they don't go calling the LEOs every time they see a gun. Yet, you seem to be falling more in the 'anti' camp of 'guns are bad, someone with a gun must be a criminal and out to harm everyone', at least.. as far as someone having a gun in your house.

    Why would the repair man having a gun, cause you to treat him as a BG, if you are that untrusting of him, shouldn't you have been treating him as a BG before you knew he had a gun?

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