Hardin County Texas Shooting - bad situation - Page 3

Hardin County Texas Shooting - bad situation

This is a discussion on Hardin County Texas Shooting - bad situation within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If trusting no one keeps my family and myself safe, I'll take that deal every time....

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Thread: Hardin County Texas Shooting - bad situation

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array Smith&Wessonfan's Avatar
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    If trusting no one keeps my family and myself safe, I'll take that deal every time.


  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by rachilders View Post
    Someone in another reply had said that "we as CHL holders are the quickest to jump to conclusions in a shooting involving a CHL." I was pointing out in my last post that there was no mention of the homeowner having a CC permit and even if he had, it would have not applied to this situation since he was at home.

    As for the auto accident you said you were involved in, it points out (along with the tragedy in the original post) the sad state we currently live in where people can't trust their neghbors or strangers anymore. In your case, someone DID help, but as you pointed out, many times "accidents" are simply a tool used to gain access to a home by criminals, so the Good Samaritan took a BIG risk by helping a stranger. How many here can say they would have done the same in his situation? On the other hand, the victim in the Hardin County shooting was also (supposedly) looking for help after a real situation and wound up dead because he went to the wrong door at the wrong time. The home owner say's the dead man tried to force his way in, but since dead men tell no tales, we'll never know the other side of the story.

    The fear seems to go both ways now, so it's a no win situation for everyone because who can we trust anymore? We're ALL assumed to be BG's now by default and are treated accordingly... sometimes to everyone's regret and for no real reason other than fear itself (didn't FDR say something about only having fear itself to fear?). But, better safe than sorry!!

    I still feel there is MUCH more to this story than is being told, but since it's unlikely we'll ever know the whole story, we'll have to judge this on what we do know and try to learn from the mistakes that BOTH men obviously made.
    again, I agree with you, its too bad that we as a society can't trust each other (helping someone broken down on the side of the road, etc)
    I agree that there's no way for any of us to say whats right or wrong in this shooting until we get more info. If any of us were put in the same situation we'd all have to make a split second decision based on what was happening at the time. I'll keep looking for more info from the investigation.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member Array Fragman's Avatar
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    Just something to add, and not to comment on what actually happened at the house, but....

    If he really did drive into a ditch, why did he not try to flag a car down on the side of the road? Better to stay by your vehicle I would have thought. I'm guessing from the story that there are several properties in the area and therefore sufficient traffic.

    Even if someone didn't stop, they may call someone. Got to be better than banging on strangers doors.

    Wonder what the B.A.C. was in this case?

  4. #34
    Member Array briar's Avatar
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    well i guess i will put my $0.02 in. after dark is when the B.G. really roll out. i am not saying everyone out after dark is one. roll play it in your head. its dark and a stranger beats on your door, then forces open on you, my family inside the house !!! he could have backed away from the door and talked softly to the man if didn't want to help then ask them to call the police. yes i believe with most of you there was something not right with this situation.

  5. #35
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith&Wessonfan View Post
    There was no misunderstanding. A stranger tried to force his way into someone's home.
    Just a point of clarification: the article said the homeowner feared the person was trying to force his way into the home. No indication there were signs of force, such as a broken door, frame, lock, window or anything else.

    Stranger was stopped by the appropriate use of force.
    Unknown, given the few details listed in the one article. (And, first reports being what they are, it should be assumed half the details are incorrect, anyway.)

    A.O.J. Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy. Unless one finds an immediate threat and that immediate action is required to terminate that threat, there is room for doubt as to whether the use of force would be justified. Unknown if the door was still closed, was being forced open, was merely feared to be opening based on the noise of the banging alone, etc.

    "we as CHL holders are the quickest to jump to conclusions in a shooting involving a CHL."
    Am not leaping to any conclusions nor making any assumptions, here. I'm merely tossing around possibilities based on the lack of details in one article about a situation. (Which is the whole point of such "what ifs", as presented.) If any bullet hole were found going through the door and/or no signs of forced entry existed, the homeowner would have a hard time explaining both the opportunity and jeopardy elements of A.O.J. in his own defense. Bangin' on the door at 2am, alone, doesn't earn getting shot, even at someone's home in the country. Fears alone don't justify that. Anyway ... unknown, given the lack of details.
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  6. #36
    Distinguished Member Array mr.stuart's Avatar
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  7. #37
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    A .22 to the Chest.

    The guy was drinking.

    No charges expected. It is going to the DA then a Grand Jury however.
    "When a man attempts to deal with me by force, I answer himóby force.
    "... No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had the right to choose: his own." -John Galt, Atlas Shrugged

  8. #38
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    thanks for the update mr.stuart

    IMO after hearing the Sheriff's report, sounds completely justified
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    Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

  9. #39
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    From the looks of the home, it's in a rural area and (looks are deceiving, I know, but going on past experience) it doesn't seem to be in the best neighborhood. Actually, it looks abandoned and a lot like some meth houses that have been busted in our area. I don't know if I'd feel safe going to the door, whether I need help of not! I wonder if that had anything to do with the owners respose to the man at his door?

    As for the .22 round that killed the driver, it just points out the statement that shot placement is more important than caliber size. In fact, a family friend was killed in New Orleans back in May, also by a .22 round. He was robbed while standing outside a friend's home one evening talking on a cell phone to his fiance (my niece). As the two robbers drove away, they fired two shot in his direction - probably just to scare him - one of which hit him in the thigh. He later died on the way to the hospital and the autopsy showed the bullet hit bone, curved up and hit a major vein and a kidney, causing him to bleed to death.
    Last edited by rachilders; July 5th, 2007 at 07:39 PM.
    "... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane

  10. #40
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    I know this doesn't really have much to do with this thread, but I specifically put dutch doors on my main entry so that I can keep the bottom locked and still open the top to see what somebody wants. Probably not an option on a trailer, but just thought I'd share. If an intruder wanted to get in, they'd have to either kick in the bottom part or jump over the door, both of those actions would give me time to draw. Just a suggestion to anyone who's concerned about a forced entry while answering the door. -PA
    Never criticize a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes...that way, when you criticize him, you're a mile away and you have his shoes.

  11. #41
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    I look through the peephole, and if I don't recognize the person, I shout "STATE YOUR BUSINESS". Then, if they are soliciting, I just shout "GO AWAY". Why open the door to be polite to someone who annoys you? And why get in a situation where one has to defend one's self just because a door was opened when it wasn't necessary?
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  12. #42
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    good point rachilders, .22 will kill you just as well as a .45
    LEO/CHL
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    "I got a touch of hangover bureaucrat, don't push me"
    --G.W. McClintock

    Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

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