Real Bad Experience... - Page 3

Real Bad Experience...

This is a discussion on Real Bad Experience... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by ccw9mm Excactly. "Waste" of time and resources? Troublesome, perhaps, but hardly a waste. Why fight to protect what you have? Why fight ...

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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Excactly. "Waste" of time and resources? Troublesome, perhaps, but hardly a waste. Why fight to protect what you have? Why fight to protect what's been taken from you? Why fight to protect against such things happening again? Because they will unless we put the fight.
    I would agree with this if some rights were violated, a false arrest was made or something like that... but other than a flippant remark and a goofball in the store what is wrong is there to be righted?
    "Just blame Sixto"


  2. #32
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    The complainant should have been slapped about the head and shoulders and he wasnt. That is wrong.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  3. #33
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    I am amazed at the dichotomy of opinions on this issue.

    One of the things we are trained to understand is to not escalate a situation, whether or not we are in the right.

    In this case, any action by the OP would be only for self satisfaction and a waste of everyone's time. No action will change the mind of the idiot in the store that reported 'man with a gun.' LE is already educated concerning the law. I doubt that this specific complaint against an LEO would cause any changes in training.

    Lastly, the law is already in favor of the gun owner (in this circumstance) so making a mountain out of a mole hill will do nothing to further gun owner's rights. If anything, it shows CCWs are hard headed individuals that cannot let a benign incident go.

    Remember, the reason we carry is not to make a political statement, but rather to protect ourselves and our loved ones.

  4. #34
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    No action will change the mind of the idiot in the store that reported 'man with a gun.'
    I disagree.

    That thought process leads to complete and total ruin of society.

    There will always be those that dont belive that stupidity can be challenged.

    Those that believe it can are the ones that change it.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  5. #35
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    One of the things we are trained to understand is to not escalate a situation, whether or not we are in the right.
    That's unrelated to having been wronged. In this case, the OP didn't get arrested. But, due to the lies of the complainant and lack of knowledge of the law and dictatorial comments by the LEO, he was rousted for no reason. Being asked to prove one has the right to carry is one thing; being rousted based on lies and lack of competence is completely different. Escalate? It's called defense. Doing little or nothing in such situations is what got us here, on a larger scale.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  6. #36
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    I am by no means saying that the OP's letter was wrong or he shouldnt follow up on it but I am pointing out that a lot of us are making our arguments on assumptions about the story.

    I do like HotGuns approach to it.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I would agree with this if some rights were violated, a false arrest was made or something like that... but other than a flippant remark and a goofball in the store what is wrong is there to be righted?
    Yep - one cop ignorant of the Law , one busybody anti - no harm done to you other than your pride.

    Not worth starting a War.
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  8. #38
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    Without actually being there, maybe the guy felt threatened, who knows? Point is, initially I would have thanked him for the heads up on the exposed grip, but told him to mind his own business when he kept pursuing it. The LEO's were jerky but a letter to the chief takes care of that. I never argue with cops on the scene....just comply and sort it out later.

    All in all, you got more involved with the original guy than I would have, but everyone's different.

    Don't let it ruin your day........enjoy carrying!

  9. #39
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    Everyone has congratulated you on the mature and articulate way taht you handled yourself and I agree fully.

    TN is also a state where we are 'allowed' to OC, but in our HCP class we are warned that by doing so we are to expect people to react in exactly the manner you describe.

    As such, while legal to OC and no actual penalty for flashing, it is prudent to conceal and remain concealed.

    Is your clothing or holster at fault, direct some attention towards that.

    But great letter, someone may just change their opinions about permit holders after reading that.

  10. #40
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    I disagree.

    That thought process leads to complete and total ruin of society.

    There will always be those that dont belive that stupidity can be challenged.

    Those that believe it can are the ones that change it.
    The solution to the roblem is simple: educate our children. Rather than a class in how to put a condom on a cucumber we should have firearm safety and training classes.


    Exactly what good would be accomplished by lawsuits, reviewing tapes, filing complaints. Yes, the situation should never have happened. In my opinion, it would be far better to actively pursue education than to beat this horse. Perhaps advocating and funding an after school firearms program at the local range would be time better spent than spening money on lawyers, writing letter, filing forms in a fruitless attempt to achieve 'justice.'

    Now, if the OP was arrested then, of course, he should seek redress. Being inconvenienced and annoyed is simply not cause for wasting time and effort of people that have important jobs to perform.
    Last edited by JD; July 8th, 2007 at 05:30 PM. Reason: removed possible inflamatory remarks

  11. #41
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    The solution to the roblem is simple: educate our children
    Why not educate the guy that is obviously ignorant of the law?

    I am all for educating the kids and do it every chance I get. In the mean time...their parents can make life much tougher for everyone than it needs to be. It's entirely possible that some of them could be trained.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  12. #42
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    We all need to be VERY familiar with our state's handgun laws so that we can verbally defend ourselves in this type of encounter with the uneducated public & LEO's. Nekura, if you had confidently known Indiana's laws regarding open vs concealed carry, you could have nipped it inthe bud and informed the complainer that although you were intending to carry concealed, you were breaking no laws by carrying openly. The conversation would have never steered toward whether the complainer was a LEO.

    I agree with Hotguns. Calling 911 and accusing you of brandishing, when the gun was never even unholstered, really does smack of filing a false report. The caller knew that "brandishing" was an incendiary word that would result in swift police response; you should go after that guy. You did the right thing emailing the police; we have to be vocal about our rights or we'll lose them.

    I open carry regularly in Virginia in order to legally enter restaurants that serve alcohol, but the only time anyone has complained was in a non-alcohol business, when I wad intending to be carrying concealed, but my cover shirt rode up (I've posted about this before: "Got Made at Arby's"). The complainer pointed me out to a police officer (who just happened to be in the food line buying lunch). He approached me and asked if the gun was registered, when there is no registration requirement in VA! I think he was feeling me out to see if I knew the laws. I did, and he left me alone to eat my salad and read my newspaper.

  13. #43
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Why not educate the guy that is obviously ignorant of the law?
    There is a right way and a wrong way. You cannot force someone to learn, especially someone who clearly lied to cause trouble for a law abiding citizen. Certainly, legal action would not make him any more cognizant of not acting like an idiot.

    I am all for educating the kids and do it every chance I get. In the mean time...their parents can make life much tougher for everyone than it needs to be. It's entirely possible that some of them could be trained.
    Great job teaching the kids! +1

    But, I don't think the original situation should be characterized as 'making life much tougher.'

  14. #44
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    Bad Experience

    Very interesting reading, if nothing else, from all sides. I have one simple statement that I live by. If I am wrong I will stand up and take it, ownership and the consequences, if not I will not back down from anyone or anything (using the appropriate response, whatever that might be-legal in most cases)

    I see the LEO's situation they have a tough enough job as it is and it is not all that safe either, however.

    The guy who made the call did so as to cause you as much grief as he could and for that since it would appear that he had a personal agenda what ever that was. He needs to understand that for each action there is a reaction and each has consequences good or bad.

    He needs to be taught a lesson. What if the next person he tries this stunt on is not legal, is a BG, or just somebody with an attitude or is just tired of dealing with whiners, either way he may have just put his family at risk all for the sake of stupidity.

    In following through with some kind of action you remain the concerned and law abiding citizen if nothing else you have protected his dumb butt, but more importantly you may just be protecting his very innocent family.

    Carrying legally requires us in most cases to think ahead and remain calm, the whiner on the other hand needs to learn the same thing
    Last edited by Scott; July 8th, 2007 at 04:56 PM. Reason: Removed profanity work around and added a comma for clarity

  15. #45
    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    It seems to me that the guy who called 911 is fighting his own little war. He has a working game plan to use whenever he sees something he doesn't like.

    How many officers were tied up responding to the "man brandishing a firearm" call?

    How aggravating is it to be questioned by police unnecessarily?

    This guy put you at risk. He labeled you as a criminal with a gun and sicced the police on you... He gets his kicks watching people get in trouble and I'm sure his behavior is not only aimed at gun owners.

    You need to get this incident on his record so that in the future, when someone does get hurt, the evidence will point to him as being someone who escalates situations and makes false charges.

    You may not have done anything wrong, but you did make a mistake. As soon as you realized that this guy was not friendly, you should have dropped your groceries and left the store. You stepped in crud accidentally and continued to smear it around and make a mess by not leaving.

    IMO, your energy now is better put to use on the crazy guy, not the police.

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