Real Bad Experience...
This is a discussion on Real Bad Experience... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by stanislaskasava
This guy put you at risk. He labeled you as a criminal with a gun and sicced the police on you... ...
July 8th, 2007 03:44 PM
I'm willing to bet when he saw the Police let you go (and I know for sure he stayed to watch from a safe distance) he went home with his wife and kids and made their lives hell, he's probably still walking around having hissy fits about it.
Originally Posted by stanislaskasava
He'll write a letter too, only his will be insane.
July 8th, 2007 04:06 PM
If you were told by a police officer at the station that the call came in on the 911 emergency line and the man told police you were "brandishing" and "threatening" with your gun, and you were not, then that man should be charged with falsely reporting an incident to the police," which is a crime.
July 8th, 2007 04:33 PM
Yeah, this was pretty much why I didn't want him still running around without having a chat with the police. I agree with you 100%, and think you understand how I feel pretty accurately.
Originally Posted by stanislaskasava
The police are not there to be used as tools for your game.
Good call, sir.
I do have to disagree, however, on leaving the store. I make it a point to not back down from bullies, even though it may be quite foolhardy not to do so at times.
July 8th, 2007 04:39 PM
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Originally Posted by HotGuns
The way I see it , you were legal and the guy was such an anti , he wanted to make you look like a criminal. He called the law knowing he was giving totally false information and causing LEO's to respond to something false. The guy should be held responsible.
I'm not an LEO so I don't deal with these things on a daily basis, but they should have talked to the guy and ask why he would do such a thing ,if nothing else. I'm sure there were plenty of witnesses that would say you were causing no problem.
I think I would have requested that the LEO go get the guy and let him tell the story to your face. If you did something wrong involving a gun in any way, you can bet your butt would be in a sling. Seems a false report of someone waving a gunna around threatning people would be quite illegal too.. I would have to follow up on this..
July 8th, 2007 04:41 PM
I gave the matter a little more thought and this is what I have to add on the subject.
When the man who complained about your visible firearm called it in to 911, the operator should have asked the man if your firearm was being pointed at someone, holstered,etc; what was your demenaor, etc. Is it me or a call of a "man with a gun" may generate more than one call to 911? Shouldn't the 911 operator take into account the number of calls made because of your firearm being on the open (I venture to say there was only one call - that of the guy who harrased you).
If the man said anything other that your firearm was holstered, but not covered by your shirt, he is lying to get you in trouble and he should be held accountable for that. If he just stated that your firearm was holstered, but openly visible, then the police needs to reasses how they do business. Sending more than one or two officers in for no crime? Thats a waste of taxpayers money. I mean, if your state is an open carry state, what crime was commited?
You may want to bring this up to the jurisdiction's financial oversight office - like I said, this just looks like a waste of taxpayers money all around.
July 8th, 2007 04:47 PM
It has nothing to do with the carry issue and it has all to do with standing up for what is right. If someone knowingly falsely accused me of hitting my child and I didn't do it, I would want the same thing to happen to the accuser. Punish them or at the least warn them and make them aware it is against the law.. Its a matter of right and wrong. Its illegal to make false police reports.
Originally Posted by SelfDefense
Just becasue we carry doesn't mean we should walk away with our tails tucked between our legs in every situation.
July 8th, 2007 04:48 PM
Nekura, I would just ignore post's that are as ridiculous as the 911 caller and the officer are.
You were right, THEY were wrong end of story! What you choose to do with that is your business. FWIW, I would be trying educating the officer as well through his supervisor or some such way. The guy in the store, he is just a dip that hasn't a clue. He will get his someday, the problem is you will probably never know when it happens.
Last edited by Scott; July 8th, 2007 at 04:53 PM.
Reason: No work arounds on profanity.
Train and train hard, you might not get a second chance to make a first impression!
I vote for Monica Lewinsky's Ex-Boyfriend's Wife for President.....Not!
July 8th, 2007 04:55 PM
Well, I'm late on this, but here goes.
There was probably no police report filed on the incident. I suspect the officer called it in "unfounded". So the only real thing on file would be the 911 and dispatch tapes. I'll bet nobody has an ID on the complainant.
So let's learn an important lesson here. Anytime one has a police contact of this sort, insist that a report be taken. The officer is not going to like this, especially if he knows that he busted your balls just for giggles. If he blows you off, ask him to call his field supervisor and have him respond. I had to do this once, and I'm glad I did. It quieted things down, and we got the problem solved.
Know the law, and don't let anybody bully you. If he's wrong, just say "arrest me, then". Basically, you're telling him to put up or shut up. He knows he can intimidate 99.9% of the people, and if you don't let him do it, he's stuck. He knew he could intimidate you, and he got away with it. The other officer at the station was nice, sure. He was doing damage control. Good cop, bad cop. Sound familiar?
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Opinions expressed here are based upon Michigan state law ONLY. Other state laws may differ. Know and observe your local laws.
July 10th, 2007 02:53 PM
This thread has been edited by several Moderators, some posts were edited, some were deleted. Not all members with edited posts were notified, we apologize for that but this thread needed a major over haul.
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July 10th, 2007 06:58 PM
Originally Posted by BikerRN
July 10th, 2007 07:10 PM
Interesting experience and topic, thanks for sharing it with us.
Simply put it seems that this guy might be an anti-gun freak, I'll refer to him as Mr O'Donnell. So he likely called 911 with an embellished story (I'd love to hear the tape) and his story, through dispatch got the local police a bit worked up, and I can't blame the police at all. However once the police determined that you were a ccw guy and heard your side of the story, then their level of concern should have subsided quite a bit. The "cowboy state" comment was a bit inappropriate. Had I been on a call like that, and sniffed out an embellished 911 call, that pulled several units away hurrying through traffic to get to a grocery store, I'd be interviewing Mr O'Donnell.
As I see it the basic root of the problem is Mr O'Donnell, and either he has a very vivid imagination or he embellished his 911 story to bring some heat on you and "punish" you for ccw. Now the big question is what would I do if I were in your shoes. If I were younger when I had plenty of fire in my belly, I'd figure out something completely legal that would cause Mr O'Donnell some amount of inconvenience. Perhaps that lesson would cause him to think a bit before he repeated this again. However at my current age, some of that fire has subsided, and I'd probably just blow it off and forget about it.
Gain a 2A vote, take a fence-sitter shooting.
July 10th, 2007 07:14 PM
Man, I love this forum! Lucky was the day I found it. I work whacky hours and I now find that this forum is interfering with Oprah and Ellen! Guess I need Tivo.
Oh, the thread, I really like HotGuns response the best. I think he should go after the anti. I say this because what if (and it's not that much of a stretch) the dispatcher vamped up the caller's claim? What if a green LEO thought that this guy was posing a threat? And, worse case scenario, a perfectly innocent man is shot down in a Kroger parking lot. It happens. And, in this case, because some anti has a splinter up his gluteous maximus. At this point, it has cost him nothing and may embolden him to do it again. In my town, accosting a homey about a semi exposed gun could cost you your life.
July 11th, 2007 12:35 AM
Originally Posted by BikerRN
"... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane
July 11th, 2007 08:03 AM
We, as holders of CPL licenses have a duty to represent the right to carry in the most positive degree possible.It is part of the bigger picture to do so.We need to know the laws that we will be complying with. We also need to know that we will encounter some individuals that do not agree with the whole CPL idea.Those people may also include LEO. That being said,understand that LEO has a job to do and the authority to do it as they see fit (subject to review later by others). Michigan is an open carry state.The police community acknowledges this fact but openly adds"if you open carry in Michigan, be prepared as you will be hassled". I understand the reasons for this and personally don't have a problem with someone walking down the street with a shotgun in his hands getting asked a few questions.It's common sense and doesn't require a debate on the second amendment when it occurs.Don't discount the fact that there are some holders of CPL's that are absent minded and truly did not mean to reveal their weapon. There are also some that get a thrill by flashing and also are just waiting for the chance to have a public debate with citizens or LEO over their rights. The old adage that an armed society is a polite society has merit. JMHO Chuck.
July 11th, 2007 08:20 AM
I make it a practice to extricate myself from all situations involving bullies. They aren't worth my time and do not damage my ego. Carrying and getting into a p*****g match with them is not worth the potential risk or liability.
Originally Posted by Nekura
I would like to point out that we had a police officer murdered here recently and that was the day after the anniversary of the murder of another police officer a year ago. I think its natural that the police may be a little over protective.
I would also like to point out also how overworked and underpaid law enforcement is in this area. That's no excuse, but I can get past a cop being a little heavy-handed, even though I don't like it. I want the cops to be cautious and heavy-handed when necessary.
HELGA: Where are you going?
HAGAR: To sign a peace treaty with the King of England.
HELGA: Then why take all those weapons?
HAGAR: First we gotta negotiate...
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