Real Bad Experience...

This is a discussion on Real Bad Experience... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by stanislaskasava This guy put you at risk. He labeled you as a criminal with a gun and sicced the police on you... ...

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Thread: Real Bad Experience...

  1. #46
    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanislaskasava View Post

    This guy put you at risk. He labeled you as a criminal with a gun and sicced the police on you... He gets his kicks watching people get in trouble and I'm sure his behavior is not only aimed at gun owners.


    I'm willing to bet when he saw the Police let you go (and I know for sure he stayed to watch from a safe distance) he went home with his wife and kids and made their lives hell, he's probably still walking around having hissy fits about it.

    He'll write a letter too, only his will be insane.

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  3. #47
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    If you were told by a police officer at the station that the call came in on the 911 emergency line and the man told police you were "brandishing" and "threatening" with your gun, and you were not, then that man should be charged with falsely reporting an incident to the police," which is a crime.

  4. #48
    New Member Array Nekura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanislaskasava View Post
    It seems to me that the guy who called 911 is fighting his own little war. He has a working game plan to use whenever he sees something he doesn't like.

    How many officers were tied up responding to the "man brandishing a firearm" call?

    How aggravating is it to be questioned by police unnecessarily?

    This guy put you at risk. He labeled you as a criminal with a gun and sicced the police on you... He gets his kicks watching people get in trouble and I'm sure his behavior is not only aimed at gun owners.

    You need to get this incident on his record so that in the future, when someone does get hurt, the evidence will point to him as being someone who escalates situations and makes false charges.

    You may not have done anything wrong, but you did make a mistake. As soon as you realized that this guy was not friendly, you should have dropped your groceries and left the store. You stepped in crud accidentally and continued to smear it around and make a mess by not leaving.

    IMO, your energy now is better put to use on the crazy guy, not the police.
    Yeah, this was pretty much why I didn't want him still running around without having a chat with the police. I agree with you 100%, and think you understand how I feel pretty accurately.

    The police are not there to be used as tools for your game.

    Good call, sir.

    I do have to disagree, however, on leaving the store. I make it a point to not back down from bullies, even though it may be quite foolhardy not to do so at times.

  5. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Without going into alot of words,I'll just say that I'm pretty well in line with ccw9mm's line of thinking in post #18.

    Like Sixto, I have been the responding officer to such calls. Fact of the matter is, you never know what to expect on a call like that and must approach it with caution. When you determine what the truth is, you have to deal with the facts.

    A few years ago I responded to a call at the local steakhouse with a call much like the one here. After the usual conversation with dispatch, once we figured out that the guy was good to go and simply made a mistake by allowing his shirt to ride up over his gun, we advised him to keep it covered and have a good day. He was somewhat embarrassed and quite apologetic. Since the complainant wanted to talk to the Police, I basically got to listen to her whine and complain about the evils of gun ownership and how it ought to be against the law. She was ticked that the guy was not arrested and wanted to know why. She was visitor from a different state and totally ignorant of the law.

    And that is basically what I told in a nice,less than offensive way. I educated her so that if she another situation like the above presented itself, she wouldn't feel that the guy with gun was out to kill everybody. She understood that and I like to think that she learned something that day.

    The cop in the noted situation could have communicated a bit more effectively, but fact of the matter is, many of them dont have the skills. A little common sense here could have avoided any misunderstanding but sometimes the obvious isn't so obvious till much later.

    With that being siad...
    Hire a lawyer. Scare the water of the guy that proved himself to be ignorant. File charges of filing a false report,harassment and intimidation and make him answer for it. Even if its dropped, the ignoramus will think twice before doing it again. You were legal in all activities, he was ignorant of the law and we all know that ignorance of the law is no excuse. Hi use of certain words to make the cops respond in force was not only wrong but irresponsible.

    Turn it into an educational opportunity to insure it never happens again. If you dont take the opportunity to educate when you can you may never have that opportunity again. In the mean time, Mr Complainant uses up precious resources on bogus complaints because he is ticked that people can legally carry and he is making a statement.

    Burn his butt. Make him quiver. Change his attitude. If nothing else, he'll remember your face when he lays his head on his pillow at night.
    I couldn't have said it better myself.
    The way I see it , you were legal and the guy was such an anti , he wanted to make you look like a criminal. He called the law knowing he was giving totally false information and causing LEO's to respond to something false. The guy should be held responsible.
    I'm not an LEO so I don't deal with these things on a daily basis, but they should have talked to the guy and ask why he would do such a thing ,if nothing else. I'm sure there were plenty of witnesses that would say you were causing no problem.
    I think I would have requested that the LEO go get the guy and let him tell the story to your face. If you did something wrong involving a gun in any way, you can bet your butt would be in a sling. Seems a false report of someone waving a gunna around threatning people would be quite illegal too.. I would have to follow up on this..

  6. #50
    Senior Member Array cagueits's Avatar
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    I gave the matter a little more thought and this is what I have to add on the subject.

    When the man who complained about your visible firearm called it in to 911, the operator should have asked the man if your firearm was being pointed at someone, holstered,etc; what was your demenaor, etc. Is it me or a call of a "man with a gun" may generate more than one call to 911? Shouldn't the 911 operator take into account the number of calls made because of your firearm being on the open (I venture to say there was only one call - that of the guy who harrased you).

    If the man said anything other that your firearm was holstered, but not covered by your shirt, he is lying to get you in trouble and he should be held accountable for that. If he just stated that your firearm was holstered, but openly visible, then the police needs to reasses how they do business. Sending more than one or two officers in for no crime? Thats a waste of taxpayers money. I mean, if your state is an open carry state, what crime was commited?

    You may want to bring this up to the jurisdiction's financial oversight office - like I said, this just looks like a waste of taxpayers money all around.

  7. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    I am amazed at the dichotomy of opinions on this issue.

    One of the things we are trained to understand is to not escalate a situation, whether or not we are in the right.

    In this case, any action by the OP would be only for self satisfaction and a waste of everyone's time. No action will change the mind of the idiot in the store that reported 'man with a gun.' LE is already educated concerning the law. I doubt that this specific complaint against an LEO would cause any changes in training.

    Lastly, the law is already in favor of the gun owner (in this circumstance) so making a mountain out of a mole hill will do nothing to further gun owner's rights. If anything, it shows CCWs are hard headed individuals that cannot let a benign incident go.

    Remember, the reason we carry is not to make a political statement, but rather to protect ourselves and our loved ones.
    It has nothing to do with the carry issue and it has all to do with standing up for what is right. If someone knowingly falsely accused me of hitting my child and I didn't do it, I would want the same thing to happen to the accuser. Punish them or at the least warn them and make them aware it is against the law.. Its a matter of right and wrong. Its illegal to make false police reports.
    Just becasue we carry doesn't mean we should walk away with our tails tucked between our legs in every situation.

  8. #52
    VIP Member Array Ti Carry's Avatar
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    Nekura, I would just ignore post's that are as ridiculous as the 911 caller and the officer are.

    You were right, THEY were wrong end of story! What you choose to do with that is your business. FWIW, I would be trying educating the officer as well through his supervisor or some such way. The guy in the store, he is just a dip that hasn't a clue. He will get his someday, the problem is you will probably never know when it happens.


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  9. #53
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    Well, I'm late on this, but here goes.

    There was probably no police report filed on the incident. I suspect the officer called it in "unfounded". So the only real thing on file would be the 911 and dispatch tapes. I'll bet nobody has an ID on the complainant.

    So let's learn an important lesson here. Anytime one has a police contact of this sort, insist that a report be taken. The officer is not going to like this, especially if he knows that he busted your balls just for giggles. If he blows you off, ask him to call his field supervisor and have him respond. I had to do this once, and I'm glad I did. It quieted things down, and we got the problem solved.

    Know the law, and don't let anybody bully you. If he's wrong, just say "arrest me, then". Basically, you're telling him to put up or shut up. He knows he can intimidate 99.9% of the people, and if you don't let him do it, he's stuck. He knew he could intimidate you, and he got away with it. The other officer at the station was nice, sure. He was doing damage control. Good cop, bad cop. Sound familiar?
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  10. #54
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    This thread has been edited by several Moderators, some posts were edited, some were deleted. Not all members with edited posts were notified, we apologize for that but this thread needed a major over haul.

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  11. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    Sounds like you handled the situation pretty well.

    Now that you have mailed your letters I would let it go, you've made your point. If you continue to proceed with "busting everybodies chops" regarding this issue it means you have way too much time on your hands. That is just my humble opinion and no offense meant.

    I like the way you asked the "gentleman" if he was an LEO and requested ID. That was a very good move on your part. The only thing different would be to report him for Stalking as he followed you around the store, but it's too late now.


    As far as the "Cowboy State" comment, I resemble that remark! I grew up a cowboy and live in a cowboy state. It sounds to me like either the officer was trying to express his personal opinion, and claiming it was law, "fishing" to see how you would respond or just plain "misinformed". You can take your pick among your most favorable three options.

    Now that it's over, let it go and move on. You've done good.

    Biker
    +1!

  12. #56
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    Interesting experience and topic, thanks for sharing it with us.

    Simply put it seems that this guy might be an anti-gun freak, I'll refer to him as Mr O'Donnell. So he likely called 911 with an embellished story (I'd love to hear the tape) and his story, through dispatch got the local police a bit worked up, and I can't blame the police at all. However once the police determined that you were a ccw guy and heard your side of the story, then their level of concern should have subsided quite a bit. The "cowboy state" comment was a bit inappropriate. Had I been on a call like that, and sniffed out an embellished 911 call, that pulled several units away hurrying through traffic to get to a grocery store, I'd be interviewing Mr O'Donnell.

    As I see it the basic root of the problem is Mr O'Donnell, and either he has a very vivid imagination or he embellished his 911 story to bring some heat on you and "punish" you for ccw. Now the big question is what would I do if I were in your shoes. If I were younger when I had plenty of fire in my belly, I'd figure out something completely legal that would cause Mr O'Donnell some amount of inconvenience. Perhaps that lesson would cause him to think a bit before he repeated this again. However at my current age, some of that fire has subsided, and I'd probably just blow it off and forget about it.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

  13. #57
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    Man, I love this forum! Lucky was the day I found it. I work whacky hours and I now find that this forum is interfering with Oprah and Ellen! Guess I need Tivo.
    Oh, the thread, I really like HotGuns response the best. I think he should go after the anti. I say this because what if (and it's not that much of a stretch) the dispatcher vamped up the caller's claim? What if a green LEO thought that this guy was posing a threat? And, worse case scenario, a perfectly innocent man is shot down in a Kroger parking lot. It happens. And, in this case, because some anti has a splinter up his gluteous maximus. At this point, it has cost him nothing and may embolden him to do it again. In my town, accosting a homey about a semi exposed gun could cost you your life.

  14. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    Sounds like you handled the situation pretty well.

    Now that you have mailed your letters I would let it go, you've made your point. If you continue to proceed with "busting everybodies chops" regarding this issue it means you have way too much time on your hands. That is just my humble opinion and no offense meant.

    I like the way you asked the "gentleman" if he was an LEO and requested ID. That was a very good move on your part. The only thing different would be to report him for Stalking as he followed you around the store, but it's too late now.

    As far as the "Cowboy State" comment, I resemble that remark! I grew up a cowboy and live in a cowboy state. It sounds to me like either the officer was trying to express his personal opinion, and claiming it was law, "fishing" to see how you would respond or just plain "misinformed". You can take your pick among your most favorable three options.

    Now that it's over, let it go and move on. You've done good.

    Biker


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  15. #59
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    We, as holders of CPL licenses have a duty to represent the right to carry in the most positive degree possible.It is part of the bigger picture to do so.We need to know the laws that we will be complying with. We also need to know that we will encounter some individuals that do not agree with the whole CPL idea.Those people may also include LEO. That being said,understand that LEO has a job to do and the authority to do it as they see fit (subject to review later by others). Michigan is an open carry state.The police community acknowledges this fact but openly adds"if you open carry in Michigan, be prepared as you will be hassled". I understand the reasons for this and personally don't have a problem with someone walking down the street with a shotgun in his hands getting asked a few questions.It's common sense and doesn't require a debate on the second amendment when it occurs.Don't discount the fact that there are some holders of CPL's that are absent minded and truly did not mean to reveal their weapon. There are also some that get a thrill by flashing and also are just waiting for the chance to have a public debate with citizens or LEO over their rights. The old adage that an armed society is a polite society has merit. JMHO Chuck.

  16. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nekura View Post
    I do have to disagree, however, on leaving the store. I make it a point to not back down from bullies, even though it may be quite foolhardy not to do so at times.
    I make it a practice to extricate myself from all situations involving bullies. They aren't worth my time and do not damage my ego. Carrying and getting into a p*****g match with them is not worth the potential risk or liability.

    I would like to point out that we had a police officer murdered here recently and that was the day after the anniversary of the murder of another police officer a year ago. I think its natural that the police may be a little over protective.

    I would also like to point out also how overworked and underpaid law enforcement is in this area. That's no excuse, but I can get past a cop being a little heavy-handed, even though I don't like it. I want the cops to be cautious and heavy-handed when necessary.
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