How many hold back carry ammo for testing?

How many hold back carry ammo for testing?

This is a discussion on How many hold back carry ammo for testing? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I recently started doing this about 18 months ago. I don't know how necessary it is, but have felt it's only prudent to do after ...

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Thread: How many hold back carry ammo for testing?

  1. #1
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    Array Bark'n's Avatar
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    How many hold back carry ammo for testing?

    I recently started doing this about 18 months ago. I don't know how necessary it is, but have felt it's only prudent to do after reading several articles in just how many ways ammunition has played a role at trial.

    I will keep back a minimum of 5 or 6 rounds of my carry ammo and keep it in the original box in order for LEO or my Defense Attorney to do ballistics testing.

    I also keep the box to have a record of the manufacture date and lot number should anything about my ammunition comes into question it will be available for testing.

    I was wondering how many people follow this practice as well?
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."


  2. #2
    Member Array unrequited's Avatar
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    I do this unintentionally... I have a 50rnd box of HST's and I only carry 13-26 of them at any one time. Every trip to the range, I kill off two mags of 'em and then use more from the box, so I always have a box partially used of what I'm carrying at the time.

  3. #3
    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    I have heard of this before and I see the logic in it, but I don't make any effort to do it myself. I may (or may not) have extra rounds left over in a box that match my carry ammo. But as I don't carry reloads it isn't as much of a deal as if I did, IMO.

    I don't watch all the CSI shows, what are they going to be able to gain from factory ammo samples other than compatibility and a positive match?

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    Senior Member Array jeep45238's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    I have heard of this before and I see the logic in it, but I don't make any effort to do it myself. I may (or may not) have extra rounds left over in a box that match my carry ammo. But as I don't carry reloads it isn't as much of a deal as if I did, IMO.

    I don't watch all the CSI shows, what are they going to be able to gain from factory ammo samples other than compatibility and a positive match?

    Nothing, and a lot of the ballistic stuff you see on CSI is pure imagination.
    ~Mike F.
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    Member Array Chaddae52's Avatar
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    And if lawyers weren't so good at what they do we wouldn't be having this topic! We're always trying to CYA because of those stories we read about the BG sueing the GG because he shot him after breaking in! Not trying to kill the thread, just makes me go nuts. I have not even thought that far ahead as to prove what I'm carrying in court. They can dig it out of BG after I shoot it?
    "Like a muddied spring or polluted well is a righteous man who gives way to the wicked." -Proverbs 25:26

    "If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed..." -Exodus 22:2

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    I do this and have for at least ten years.

    I got the idea from a Massad Ayoob article.

    Biker

  7. #7
    Member Array Eddie A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaddae52 View Post
    And if lawyers weren't so good at what they do we wouldn't be having this topic! We're always trying to CYA because of those stories we read about the BG sueing the GG because he shot him after breaking in! Not trying to kill the thread, just makes me go nuts. I have not even thought that far ahead as to prove what I'm carrying in court. They can dig it out of BG after I shoot it?
    +1
    Amen Chad
    "I'd rather have my gun and not need it, than need it and not have it"

  8. #8
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    Yeah... I don't watch CSI. Never have.

    Actually they can get a lot of ballistic evidence with GSR (gun shot residue). Comparisons of GSR from your gun vs. the other guys. Also a lot can be told about what distance you fired from which very well could bolster your case of self defense if they have some cartridges for comparison.

    Ammo from the same brand but from different lots can make a noticable difference with GSR testing.

    Most of the time those issues at trial are "red herrings", but if you have comparison ammo available from the same factory lot, you can avoid some of the pitfalls that may come up.

    I have had to testify as a witness in a shooting homicide trial in the past. After my testimony (rather limited as I was just testifying as an EMS provider who responded) I was allowed to sit in for the remainder of the trial. I went back for 3 additional days of the trial and was pretty facinated at all the stuff brought out.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaddae52 View Post
    I have not even thought that far ahead as to prove what I'm carrying in court. They can dig it out of BG after I shoot it?
    But they cannot duplicate gun shot residue patterns to establish the distance between shooter and shootee. This is not so much for your civil protection but for your CRIMINAL protection.

    After the shooting you are going to tell the story as you remember it to the authorities. The criminal may tell the same or a different story. The DA may or may not believe you. Assuming you are telling the truth it is in your best interest to provide as much evidence as possible to support your position. Having the original ammo from the same box handy helps you to defend yourself.

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    Member Array SVTCobra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post

    I got the idea from a Massad Ayoob article.
    Me too. I do like the above poster, buy 50rd box and load mags. What's left over stays in the original box. Every couple of months I'll shoot out my carry mags and use up the rest of the box.

  11. #11
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    No, I don't.

    I'm carrying the last of my Hydro-shoks in my .380 now. When I buy more carry ammo I'll shoot these. I've got some more Gold-Dots for my snubbie still left but I'll shoot those too. My full size Rossi has the last 6 of Fedearl Defense .357mag in it. I'll get some more Gold-Dots and shoot these up too.
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    VIP Member Array jwhite75's Avatar
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    I also write on the insdie lid of the box date laoded and what weapon I loaded it in.
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    I do this and have for at least ten years.

    I got the idea from a Massad Ayoob article.

    Biker

    I'd be interested in reading the article. Anyone have a link to it? Thought-provoking thread!
    "Our Constitution was made only for a religious and moral people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other." --- John Adams
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    Source: Oct. 11, 1798; Address to the military

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xercise2nd View Post
    I'd be interested in reading the article. Anyone have a link to it? Thought-provoking thread!
    Check the second to last issue of Combat Handguns. There were two months of stories about myths that can send you to jail. Keeping ammo was listed in the same section as the one talking about the risks in having handloads for defense.

    FYI the DA presented that the ammo used was the brass that remained, Fed 38 spcl +P, and not the lower powerred rounds handloaded by the owner which would have resulted in a much reduced distance that powder residue would be thrown. The judge did not allow the inclusion of reloaded ammo as evidence.

  15. #15
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    Thought provoking thread, this is an area I have not considered before.

    This type of information and discussion is what makes this forum so good. All of us together are much smarter than any one of us alone.

    Thanks

    "First rule of a gun fight is to have a gun"

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