Why do we as a whole choose to conceal like its a bad thing?
This is a discussion on Why do we as a whole choose to conceal like its a bad thing? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'll add a small caveat - re my choice to open carry at home and a few places elsewhere which are essentially private property.
July 17th, 2007 11:53 PM
I'll add a small caveat - re my choice to open carry at home and a few places elsewhere which are essentially private property.
I am well aware that we need to defend our position - the right to own and carry a firearm and so I do not when on private property always conceal. Many folks in my RC flying club know I carry - simply because I choose to open carry then.
It does not upset anyone but also - it is a chance to promote sensible carry and I have managed to spread the word a few times in just such a situation. I do draw the line tho at open carry in public - it is just potentially more hassle than I need.
I have I think found a good balance and yet still manage to periodically bring up the subject thru being open ....... and spread the word quite successfully. Every lil' bit helps - as they say
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
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July 18th, 2007 01:24 AM
I have had this same thought several times. And I know that most states stipulate concealed carry but here in Tennessee, we are not issued a concealed carry permit, it is a handgun carry permit. No requirement to conceal the gun at all.
Originally Posted by spyderdude
I have made it known here on the forum that I open carry a majority of the time. And one reason, other than the biggest that it is just much more convenient and comfortable in the summer not to have to wear a covering garment, is that I want to exercise that right as vigorously as possible. I want the sheeple to know that a person who is carrying a gun is not a bag guy just because he has a gun.
When I started open carrying after moving here, I expected to have the cops show up because some sheep went nuts when they saw my gun. It has not happened. In fact, I have had no negative response at all. Honestly, the two reactions I have received so far have been positive.
It seems that the sheeple here either know that the carrying of a gun by a citizen, either openly or concealed is nothing to fear or, I look like a cop. Who knows?
What I do know is this: since I started open carrying, I feel less like I am doing something that might be frowned upon by the general population. In fact, I feel like now I don't really care if I startle a sheeple out there. If they react that way to me and my openly carried gun, they need to be woken up.
July 18th, 2007 01:53 AM
Ok, I think you all have pretty much proved your points, and they are some strong ones. It's still kinda nice living in a place where open carry isn't illegal, so I don't have to worry about whether my gun is exposed or not. I know some of you spend alot of money going through various holsters, cover garments, belts, and other things necessary to safely carry your sidearm of choice. I myself CC more than OC for the same reasons, but this was just something I've been thinking about.
USMC rule # 23 of gunfighting: Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
I am the God fearing, gun toting, flag waving conservative you were warned about!
July 18th, 2007 02:22 AM
In places where it's legal, this seems to be the underlying reason for most.
Originally Posted by BIG E
It's a shame that people spout off here and other forums constantly that "they'll get them from my cold dead hands..." and yet hide their guns in fear of harassment by the police or antis.
What kind of world is this when honest citizens avoid exercising their legal rights for fear of police harassment.
Many gun owners are living in denial, pretending that things are not "really that bad" while really living in fear of the police, and cheering about receiving their permission slips from the government to exercise their rights.
I realize that I'm in the minority here, but living in an open carry state, I find the main value of concealed carry to be in avoiding tresspassing charges when entering private "posted" businesses.
July 18th, 2007 04:32 AM
LOL - Reality is not just a TV show
Originally Posted by bobernet
Most here just play by the rules , and work to change the bad ones.
So , do YOU have a concealed carry permit?
I think you may be the one in "Denial"
"The Nevada concealed firearms LAW has been in effect since October 1, 1995, and requires all applicants to be photographed, fingerprinted and investigated, even those who currently hold a permit."
* A permit holder must NOT carry a concealed firearm into:
* Any facility of a law enforcement agency.
* A prison, city or county jail, or detention facility.
* A courthouse or courtroom.
* A public airport and/or a public building that is located on the property of a public airport.
* A public building that has a metal detector at each public entrance.
* A public building that has a sign posted at each public entrance indicating that no firearms are allowed in the building.
* Any facility of a public or private school without written permission.
* Any facility of a vocational/technical school, or the University of Nevada, or Community College System without written permission.
* Any other building owned or occupied by the Federal Government, the state, or local government.
* Any other place where carrying a concealed firearm is prohibited by state or federal law.
I hope you don't carry concealed in posted establishments.
-SIG , it's What's for Dinner-
know your rights!
"If I walk in the woods, I feel much more comfortable carrying a gun. What if you meet a bear in the woods that's going to attack you? You shoot it."
July 18th, 2007 07:26 AM
The sheeple who believe that guns kill all by themselves probably would freak out at the site of a gun. There is not much reasoning with such irrational dopes.
July 18th, 2007 07:32 AM
We do????????????? Concealed Carry means CONCEALED. I don't care to telegraph the fact that I am armed, especially to BG's who would be tempted to remove the threat from an armed individual first.
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence in their behalf. - George Orwell
July 18th, 2007 08:19 AM
Two words: Dan Sayers. AR15 up the wazoo because some knee-jerk hayseed called police about a "man with a gun". They took him down, despite the fact he had a license to carry.
Originally Posted by spyderdude
... too ready and willing to eviscerate upstanding citizens for non-cause. I definitely get what you're saying.
It seems to me our society has gotten way too well.... I don't know what word to put in there ...
Larger = heaver = more of a pain, for many folks. Legalities aside.
I'm just wondering why we choose to bother to go out and buy cover garments, various holsters, and small guns that are easily concealed.
I don't give a damn what others think. Color me irrational but I do, however, wish to avoid jail time and being forcibly taken down every other hour by the people's police force.
It's almost like we're ashamed of being able to defend ourselves ...
The mere fact such laws pass constitutional muster and are allowed to sit on the books is itself criminal. Got a gun? Fine. Got it loaded? Fine. .454 Casull? Great. But, lo and behold, someone catches sight of the muzzle or your holster, and all of a sudden you're a criminal worthy of forcible arrest and jail time. What's next, wearing "colors"? Wearing hair too long? Wearing tats? Now, that's criminal. Actions can be criminal. But, in my opinion (though sadly not in the opinion of most legislators and judges), merely layin' there with zero intent for criminal action cannot, by definition, be criminal. Not in a free society where government tyranny doesn't reign.
I know its the law in a couple states that you must have it covered at all times, or its considered "brandishing."
I, for one, believe that the element of surprise cannot be lightly ignored. It's a strong element of any attack scenario and a powerful weapon in its own right. The moment you openly carry, you ditch much of that benefit. Can't get around that fact. Plus, many criminals who would normally let their intent against you gradually bubble to the surface will instead opt to explosively bring the fight based on the simple fact that the boad has been laid and they know the score. IMO, it's better to slow that puppy down as a matter of policy, by not being the obvious target for such things.
Now, that said, I'm all for open carry if the region and its people are consistently used to many folks carrying openly, and if a majority of folks carry. But I don't see that happening anytime soon. Not anywhere. So, I carry concealed. Despite Oregon allowing open carry.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: Why the Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
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July 18th, 2007 08:22 AM
Originally Posted by spyderdude
"Beware of the man who only owns one gun. He probably knows how to use it."
July 18th, 2007 08:28 AM
Interesting responses. I didn't realize that so many people were concerned with scaring the public and/or having the police called on them. Since I am the po-po, these thoughts never occured to me. I carry concealed for the same reason I don't show my hole cards during a hand of poker - what you don't know (and I do) could hurt you.
So, as I said before, my reasons for concealing are entirely tactical, not ideological, and it is somewhat dismaying to hear about everyone's concerns and bad experiences. May there come a day when all of us can conceal or not based only on what we are comfortable with, without having to worry about the reactions of the poorly informed.
A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.
July 18th, 2007 09:40 AM
I noticed this too when I first discovered these boards. My personal opinion on the subject is that I prefer to keep it concealed based on pure simplicity--if people don't know about it then they can't really cause trouble for me. However, if my cover garment rides up or I print or expose my firearm I couldn't care less. Some on these boards act like its the end of the world or one of the biggest sins of carrying to expose your firearm EVER, but the reality of the situation is that I am in the right whether or not I expose my firearm.
As for your question about educating the general public on firearms and carrying: IMO I think that having discussions about it are incredibly helpful. Again, alot of people on these boards shy away from those conversations and don't want ANYONE to know that they own guns or carry. Its personal preference but in terms of public knowledge and gaining pro-2a/carry support it does absolutely nothing to help the cause if you keep quiet about it.
July 18th, 2007 10:24 AM
Not a "bad thing", just a thing
Concealed is just that. Nobody (GG or BG) elses business and I perfer the tactical advantage of surprise (as already quoted dozens of times here and in other threads). I live in an open carry state but very rarely do I open carry, although I do from time to time (usually when at the range, tromping around in the woods, etc.).
I take responseability for my own choices and I choose concealed. I'm neither ashamed nor feel "bad" about it.
"Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008
(Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay
July 18th, 2007 10:32 AM
Stupid people do stupid things. Unless you look like someone "not to mess with", it can be an invitation. What would you do if a 17-20 yo thug decides he's gonna whip yo' ash and take your gun from you? Problem is, lots of people with permits are "nail-and-hammer", or "amulet" people. They have no skills or defensive line other than the firearm, or they really haven't considered that they might actually have to use the weapon, so...
This is actually the point of the recently referenced "Violent Assaults on LE Officers", by the FBI. It goes into some detail on how felons evaluated the offices they assaulted and why. Bottom line, if the officer had an aura of confident agressiveness, and demonstrated he new his business by how he/she interacted with the environment, they were a "poor target selection". The lazy, bored, overconfident, brash or "nice" officers were viable targets to overcome, since they were already behind in the decision making process.
July 18th, 2007 12:06 PM
My reference to trespassing should have made it clear that I was referring to private business who have the right to ask you to leave if they know you're armed... as opposed to public "no carry" zones which are prohibited by law.
Originally Posted by AKsrule
As to following the law and working within the system, I never advocated running around breaking the law. I specifically mentioned places where open carry is legal.
The folks talking about being afraid of the police are not afraid because they would be breaking the law... they're afraid to do what is *LEGAL* because of the threat of harassment. Makes you think of a bunch of southern cops standing in front of a restaurant telling the colored man he ought to find a new place to eat from now on... and if they catch him hanging around they're favorite lunch stop, they'll "teach him a lesson."
Where are the Rosa Parks of the gun enthusiasts?
My point is that many gun owners on Internet forums are the first ones to say they will go down fighting if the government ever gets their guns... they can "have it from my cold dead hands" and such. These are the same people that don't have the backbone to do what is already legal, and somehow they're going to grow the backbone to take on the government with their weapons when legislation doesn't go their way? I don't think so.
Hiding and cowering from those in authority rather than exercising a right that is both moral and legal doesn't very well prepare one to exercise a right later that may be moral but illegal.
I'm not saying anyone here should start open carrying if they don't want to. But this might be an opportunity for some self examination and reflection if you're one of the "tough talkers" and are already living in fear.
Take a look here and elsewhere on the Internet where people are commenting on the Parker vs. DC threads that if the Supreme Court rules the wrong way it's going to be a civil war.
July 18th, 2007 12:15 PM
Re: Concealed Carry "tactical advantage"
One reason that I don't buy this line of argument from many is that whatever you feel about concealment... I think that every single person here would agree that having *a* gun is always better than having *no* gun.
Many states had open carry laws (or lack of restrictions) long before Florida passed shall-issue CCW and long before other states followed. Most of us were alive then and many were over the legal age to own a handgun. Yet, how many carried?
Unless you were carrying illegally (which I acknowledge some did), you chose to go unarmed rather than open carry for fear of police or citizen harassment.
That tells me the whole "tactical advantage" argument is a cover for "even if I couldn't have my CCW any more, I'd still not open carry because I'm afraid of what other people would think/say/do to me."
Most people here didn't carry before they got their permission slip, and if some day the government takes away their permission slip, most will go back to not carrying.
By the way...*I* am in that "most people" who didn't carry when I could have. I'm not on a holier-than-thou high horse here. I just really wish people would be honest with themselves about their motives, and how far the public perception of law enforcement has changed.
They are no longer our "servants" they are our "masters."
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