The Mall

This is a discussion on The Mall within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Went to the mall tonight with my wife and son. I was going to go with my Kahr P40 and the two spare mags. Then ...

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Thread: The Mall

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array NY27's Avatar
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    The Mall

    Went to the mall tonight with my wife and son. I was going to go with my Kahr P40 and the two spare mags. Then I started thinking about the fairly recent mall shootings in various parts of the country.

    My G23 is in my locker at work and I am not close to my job, so I couldn't retrieve that. Well, into the safe I went for my first Glock, the NYPD issued G19 (no more NY2 trigger, now has 5.5 lb trigger). I had two 17 round G17 mags in a DeSantis double mag pouch on the left side and a Keltec P3AT on my left ankle.

    Obviously I didn't need them. But I just felt a little better having 57 rounds on me, instead of the 21 I would have had with my Kahr.

    This was only because it was a planned trip to the mall. Had I been out already I would have just gone with my Kahr, obviously.

    Years ago I would have laughed at someone who carried that much ammo going to the mall and classified them as a "buff".

    Stop that.....I'm not paranoid....I'm prepared.
    Police Defensive Tactics, Firearms, Carbine Rifle and Taser Instructor
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    It is better to have your gun and not need it, than to need it and not have it!
    You cannot choose the conditions for a gunfight, so train in all conditions!

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array kavity's Avatar
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    IMO if you need more than whatever is in you initial mag/wheel then you need to be running away as fast as possible. I carry for personal protection...not to get into a firefight at the mall.

    I still carry a spare mag or speed loader but to each his own. (I just wouldn't go to a mall where I had to have 50+ rounds to feel prepared.)

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array NY27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kavity View Post
    IMO if you need more than whatever is in you initial mag/wheel then you need to be running away as fast as possible. I carry for personal protection...not to get into a firefight at the mall.

    I still carry a spare mag or speed loader but to each his own. (I just wouldn't go to a mall where I had to have 50+ rounds to feel prepared.)
    I forgot to mention that I am an LEO. I cannot run the other way.
    Police Defensive Tactics, Firearms, Carbine Rifle and Taser Instructor
    Glock Armorer
    NRA Life Member
    It is better to have your gun and not need it, than to need it and not have it!
    You cannot choose the conditions for a gunfight, so train in all conditions!

  5. #4
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    I follow NY's rationale totally.

    True enough if he were ''right in it'' then he'd have some potentially serious work to do - and for sure the last thing wanted is to run dry!

    As a regular Joe Schmoe I will either have my 16+1 or sometimes another 15 if spare mag taken - but I'll be honest, around these parts anyways, a spare mag is not a daily deal.

    There has to be a flavor of ''better to have ....... ''.
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    Senior Member Array DirtDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY27 View Post
    I forgot to mention that I am an LEO. I cannot run the other way.
    Yup better to have 'em and not need 'em than the other way around...
    Why is it that you always find things at the last place you looked?
    Because when you find something-you stop looking-Mooch

  7. #6
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    Array Bark'n's Avatar
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    I guess I'm just paranoid... btw... what is the exact number of rounds that places you in the "paranoid" catagory?

    Oh, I don't feel paranoid, and don't feel everyone is out to get me.

    Have I been in some bad situations? Oh yeahhhh! More than enough! Have I been in situations where lethal force Was Warranted? YES! but not used for various reasons.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Stop that.....I'm not paranoid....I'm prepared.
    Don't worry, I didn't think you were paranoid at all. In fact, you and I think a lot alike.

    Being prepared is just another way of showing the ones you love how much you care for them.
    ,=====o00o _
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    It was a total fluke I admit and the odds are high it'll never happen again but...

    On day on returning to my vehicle from shopping, I saw a familliar looking item laying on my driver's seat... yup, the magazine from my gun!

    I'll never know how it came out but it taught me that I needed to remember that Murphy gets everywhere I go ahead of me!

    It's not so much the reload or round count as it's mechanical things that prompts me to carry a spare magazine. I've seen sesoned officers eject a loaded magazine during range training, it wouldn't be hard to imagine that happening during a fire fight on the street!

    I'd rather just be prepared than sorry.

    And one more thing... just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean that they're not after me!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

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    Member Array Chaddae52's Avatar
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    I carry a primary pistol with 1 extra mag. I feel safe with my family with just this equipment. If there werent any VA Tech, Trolley Square Mall in Salt Lake city UT, Columbine, or Las Vegas NY NY Casino just to name a few, I prolly wouldnt bring an extra mag. BUT! These mass shootings happen. Gotta be able to pin down these crazy shooters IMO.
    "Like a muddied spring or polluted well is a righteous man who gives way to the wicked." -Proverbs 25:26

    "If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed..." -Exodus 22:2

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    I roll out with a 1911 at 7 or 8 +1 and always bring an 8 rd. spare mag.
    I can't imagine how weighty 57 rds. would be.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  12. #11
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    I guess I can elaborate on my post above by saying... (I don't really look at it as number of bullets, but number of reloads)

    When I was a tadpole new to guns... Back in the mid 1970's well before several of you young tadpoles were born...

    I was taught and trained "Always Carry One Reload and Preferably Two!"

    So, a lot of times I carry two guns. Not all the time but a lot of times. And these days those guns happen to be hi-capacity guns. (Glock & XD)

    Now often I carry two guns and one reload for each.

    Sometimes I carry two guns and two reloads for primary and one for BUG (remember always at least one reload per gun)

    And for times when I'm in a major metro area, high crime area, or I am "off the reservation" in an unfamiliar state & unfamiliar town I usually carry two guns and two reloads for each.

    No big deal and not hard to carry or conceal with my methods of carry. (now that just happens... and I didn't really realize this until I actually counted it up for this forum... but it just happens to bring total bullets to 80 + rounds) Now on the surface, that may seem excessive to some, but I was trained "old school" where always one and preferably two is the rule.

    But again, I don't really look at it as "number of bullets"... Just "number of reloads" of which, two really can't be construed as too many!

    I also used to carry a single stack 1911 and 5 shot snubby. Still, at least one reload and sometimes two for each gun. Number of bullets never really figured into equation.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  13. #12
    Member Array FLSquirrelHunter's Avatar
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    One of the advantages of living in FL, perhaps: too little clothing most days to cover much hardware. So I carry no spare but expect my neighbors to "carry their own load." Occasionally people print, and I assume for every one that does, probably 9 don't, so in a place as populated as a mall, I know I'm not the only gun available. It may not stop gang bloodletting or a domestic dispute gone lethal, but trying to light up a mall here would be "suicide by CWLs."

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    VIP Member Array semperfi.45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY27 View Post
    I forgot to mention that I am an LEO. I cannot run the other way.
    Never say cannot. Situations dictate tactics and as LEO you know that a handgun is not a reliable fight stopper. I am LEO also and if I was with my family, I am on my way out, my gun protecting us in a tactical disengagement.

    For any who think off duty LEO's must take action (a common misconception) most off duty LEO's do not have a requirement to act, unless bound by Department policy. A majority of agencies will not breach this and make off duty action mandatory because of it's liability and risk. Mandatory action makes the agency liable for your off duty conduct and not many agencies will not shoulder that load. Under FLSA and Supreme Court rulings this opens up a can of worms in regards to pay, benefits, insurance, disability, leave time, civil action etc...since the moment you take an off duty LEO action you are now on duty (if you're agency mandates it).

    I am not required to act. If I chose to, I would do so at my own possible peril as far as personal legal action in the future and maybe bodily injury/death. I would have to fight to get my agencies deep pockets to protect me. Not something I will put on my families plate. When I am in uniform/ on the job it is a different story.

    If you are required to act off duty then you are carrying a gun 24/7 (I hope) and will therefore be covered by your department for any action you take.

    LEO may electively act but are bound by self defense principles (same as CCW's and with HR218) not their law enforcement role. Off duty, you may (and should) protect yourself and others. Taking the fight to the next level and not retreating as you can when on duty is not a requirement.
    Training means learning the rules. Experience means learning the exceptions.

  15. #14
    Member Array PeterCartwright's Avatar
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    This discussion once again highlights important differences between non-LEO and LEO folks. As a civilian, I appreciate hearing the perspectives of those who carry the authority and responsibility of their office. Even if a department does not mandate a response to observed crimminal violence (and the lack of mandate makes perfect sense to me), the mindset of cop probably means they are, by default, more vulnerable. God bless and protect you LEO folks!

    You've all reminded me that we who choose to carry need to do some very hard thinking ahead of time about the circumstances which would merit an armed response.

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kavity View Post
    I carry for personal protection...not to get into a firefight at the mall.
    Nobody upstanding (desiring to remain that way) plans to get into a firefight. No such person is looking for it. But that sort of scenario is one where you don't always have the luxury of running away, as many of those interior shops simply don't have exits ... except back into the lane of fire. I've seen small riots/fistfights explode right in front of me; none yet with firearms. In the wrong place, there can literally be nowhere to go.

    OP: Good on ya, for thinking outside the box. However unlikely, yes it can happen. Carry a sensible number of reloads, varying by the expected, likely or possible action to be encountered.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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