July 22nd, 2007 03:46 PM
Stolen car from Church
My father in law is a pastor in Little Rock Arkansas and called to tell us today that his car had been stolen. A gentleman came to the parsonage and asked for help then afterwards stole there car.
They have not been a big fan of my idea to carry a gun as a preacher but we are not excluded from the ranks of bad things happening to us. I guess a call to order is necessary for this. What do you do as far as CCW when someone poses no threat physically but is commiting a felony against you. Draw down , fire a warning shot etc. Just curious about your input. thanks
July 22nd, 2007 03:52 PM
Call the law. Watch and witness. Be readly to fill out a statement.
What do you do as far as CCW when someone poses no threat physically but is commiting a felony against you. Draw down , fire a warning shot etc. Just curious about your input. thanks
To use your gun you must be in fear for your life. If you are not in fear for your life, you'd better keep the gun in your holster. Unless the perp is about to commit arson or assault, you cannot shoot someone over property here in Arkansas.
Your arent alone. We had a .45 Auto with some ammo stolen out from a truck in the parking lot and I go to a big church. Now we have parking lot attendants roving the lots at all times.
I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.
AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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July 22nd, 2007 03:53 PM
Tim ...... state by state.
I could not (and would not) present my firearm here in PA, unless threatened myself by lethal force (tho seeing your stuff being thieved is making that mighty tempting!)..
In TX however I believe it is permissible to use a firearm against a loss of property.
The general concensus usually seems to be - call theft in - be a good witness etc ... and take up an insurance claim if need be.
Apart from state variations it will also be ''circumstances alter events".
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
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July 22nd, 2007 03:58 PM
that's a personal decision. Some states allow the use of deadly force in defense of property, but there are many people who will say "it's only a car".
For me, I'm probably not going to risk my life over a car. I'll certainly call the cops and keep the guy in sight. Chances are good that when I spot him, he'll spot me and either run or charge me. If he runs, it's over. If he charges me, that changes things considerably, and I would have to assume he was intending to kill me.
I'm not going to initiate a confrontation, but neither am I going to hide in the corner if my car alarm goes off. For all I know, it might have been a stray dog, and if nothing else, I owe it to my neighbors to go turn off the noise.
July 22nd, 2007 04:00 PM
I guess I will start off by saying this. Do not fire a warning shot. The other part of your question is kinda tricky to answer. There are a lot of probables to that scenario. Some of which has to do with the law's of that state. The big thing is, is your life endanger?? I was raised that you never point a weapon to threaten, you point to shoot. You never shoot to wound, you shoot to stop the threat.
July 22nd, 2007 04:04 PM
Wow, stealing the preachers car... from the churchs lot! Hot guns layed it all out for you, its good advice. No warning shots!!!
But if you did, maybe the BG would think its a clap of thunder and he's about to meet someone nobody wants to.
July 22nd, 2007 05:26 PM
We do have the right to protect property here in Ky, but it doesn't matter to me. It is just a car. I'd just hope I didn't just fill the tank....
July 22nd, 2007 05:55 PM
1943 - 2009
I mean no offense, but anyone who owns a firearm and has had even a modicum of training knows, or darn well better know, that a warning shot is never justified.
Don't even think about it. To state the obvious, once that bullet leaves the muzzle you've lost all control over it, but you retain the responsibility for it.
But sadly, as long as this notion is perpetuated by Hollywood and the news media, it will never die.
When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
And go to your God like a soldier.
July 22nd, 2007 06:00 PM
This highlights a good point about carrying a weapon. We focus a lot on the legal aspects, but the moral aspects to most of us are as/more important.
Hopefully everyone has set mental triggers and decided well beforehand under what circumstances they will and won't shoot. Whether legal or not, I have decided that property alone is not worth a life (mine or the BGs).
I will shoot to defend innocent life (mine or another's), but I will not shoot to defend property.
July 22nd, 2007 06:07 PM
Never fire a warning shot!
July 22nd, 2007 06:26 PM
The laws of your state will dictate if you can draw on a person committing a property crime against you. Some are OK with it, some are not.
However, a basic and always applicable rule of thumb is: NEVER FIRE WARNING SHOTS! NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!
Warning shots are a bad idea for so many reasons. Only a few of which are these: they actually tend to embolden the scum bags. They figure that you don't have the guts to shoot them and the warning shot was your feeble attempt to scare them off. They will be more likely to attack you after the warning shot.
Another reason, you are legally responsible for every round that you fire. That includes warning shots. Why add to the round count that may injure of kill some unintended bystander with an un-aimed warning shot?
Lastly, what if the scum bag attacks you anyway after your warning shot? What if he is tanked up on PCP and it takes multiple rounds to bring him down, as is normally the case with PCP users? And what if, you being a round short now, that was the round needed to bring his attack on you, or your kids or wife to an end? Do you really want to waste a round to try to scare someone off?
Never fire warning shots. Never fire warning shots. Never fire warning shots. Never fire warning shots. Never fire warning shots. Never fire warning shots. Never fire warning shots. Never fire warning shots....................have I said it enough?
July 22nd, 2007 06:32 PM
I'm actually jumping on the bandwagon here and saying NEVER fire a warning shot. If you shoot it better be because you HAD to. Now, that said...Who says that if you see someone stealing the car and they see you seeing them stealing the car, that they aren't going to try to run you down with said car? Brings that whole fear for your life thing into play...
"My God David, We're a Civilized society."
"Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
-The Mist (2007)
July 22nd, 2007 07:00 PM
i guess one thing to do is to just face the fact that your car is gone for now, but you probably wouldn't want it back if it is recovered. rely on insurance to compensate, and i wouldn't even interfere with the criminal taking the car. let them take it they are already in the car leaving.
don't add fuel to the fire.
if you were to walk out to see the car being stolen, and they see you, pull a gun on you, then that has changed from stolen car to a full on threat to your life. Use the means to protect yourself.
otherwise, stay wise call the cops and insurance company. i wouldn't even give chase.
that is my take on it.
July 22nd, 2007 07:51 PM
Just curious as to what you might do. Personally i would never even draw but you could nt blame me for askin to see who s payn attention
July 22nd, 2007 08:56 PM
While you cannot go after someone committing a felony with guns blazing you do not have to sit idly by and let them steal your positions. Let's say you see someone breaking into your vehicle. I would confront them from a distance after dialing 911. If they advanced on me out comes the gun pointed down but visible. If they were to continue the advance my guess would be that they intend to take my firearm and use it against me. Up it comes pointing at them. If they continue to be stupid I assume my life is in danger and retreat to a safe area or protect myself if need be.
DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.
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