This is a discussion on Fact or Urban (CCW) Legend ? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; OK, I just gotta ask. I keep reading posts on this and other forums that certain methods of CC "Scream Gun!" Probably at the top ...
OK, I just gotta ask.
I keep reading posts on this and other forums that certain methods of CC "Scream Gun!"
Probably at the top of the list are fanny packs, followed in no special order by:
Hawaiian shirts or other patterned shirts worn unbuttoned over a t-shirt or buttoned but untucked, with or without a t-shirt
"daytimer" type cases
and a maybe few others that escape my memory right now.
My question is: Have you personally, or do you actually know anyone personally, who has ever been "made" or actually ID'ed when carrying using any of these methods?
Or, do we forum readers/posters just "know" these methods "scream gun" and thus have created our own version of an Urban Legend?
There are no answers --- only choices.
No doubt fanny packs are the biggest offenders, what other self respecting man is going to wear one?
The big over shirts are are a good clue, when its 90+ outside, vests are the same.
As for "making" someone, yeah I've made a few. Some people just are not very good at hiding it. I really dont make an issue of looking for the average joe with a ccw though, I dont know why some are so proud of themselves when the "make" someone. If I notice, I notice, no big deal. The BG is different matter.
"Just blame Sixto"
There are no answers --- only choices.
I made one guy with a fanny pack. Of course it's because I own the same model fanny pack and he had to leave it in his truck before going into a posted area.Oh yeah, the Glock shirt was a bit of a clue also!
Mostly gun guys urban legend. People who frequent this forum or who otherwise are knowledgeable handgunners, will instantly recognize most items designed for carrying guns. Fanny packs by major holster makers (complete with logo), photojournalist vests, etc. They might assume the guy in the oversized Hawaiian shirt is packing but most of the time they will be wrong!
We recognize people who carry, often by the way they act as much as by any device or equipment. New CCW carriers are often fidgety, constantly touching, moving, rearranging their gun/holster. Experienced CCW carriers are used to carrying and are more confident in their surroundings and usually more observant.
I was in the Army so I "notice" people with Army related symbols, clothing, equipment, that many others won't notice. Same with guns. We are aware of the reason for a certain piece of equipment so we know it is gun related.
Yesterday I saw a guy at WalMart with an NRA hat, a Browning T-shirt, and a vest that was covered with about 20 firearms related patches. The bulge under his vest was obvious. Not a good CONCEALED carry, but he did not seem to strike fear in the hearts of the other customers. Just another guy who is poorly dressed to be out in public (other than on a shooting range).
I dont know if the fanny packs scream gun so much as they used to. There are so many people that carry them now that would never even own a gun so much carry one that I don't think the average sheeple would even think about it.
HOWever, I can always pick out The FBI agents when they come into the county courthouse during the summer. They have on tan dockers blue polo shirts, New Balance runners and blue fanny packs.
You have to figure they all have a Glock 23 or a 27 in those packs.
They are also easy to pick out because they like to play with their automatic knives at the courthouse too.
Last edited by Lawrence Keeney; July 24th, 2007 at 11:48 PM. Reason: because I can't spell for beans...
"I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie. Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong." Denny Crane:
I agree- the fanny packs are the easiest. I used to work with a guy who carried a compact Glock around in a black leather fanny pack (with the "fanny pack" itself around to his front). It just looked totally out of place out and about on normal trips around our sales areas in Delaware to see a guy with a fanny pack on. Now maybe if you were to carry that way in a tourist area it might not look out of place, but I've read suggestions from "experts" who suggest if you're trying to blend in with the tourist flock and use a fanny pack to CCW, then try to find one that's not made out of black leather (like so many "made for carry" packs are) and also to stitch on some common logo patches of camera makers so that it looks more like a camera pack.
I think that the day planner "holsters" are a bad idea -not because they're easy to "make" as a concealed carry item (in fact they're probably one of the best ways to conceal a gun other than in a briefcase - tons of people in the business world carry dayplanners so it doesn't raise any questions) but because I think it's just too easy to leave a day planner behind at a meeting where somebody will then find it and open it to see who's it is... or you'll leave it at a public restroom or something. If it's not attached to your body then you can loose it.
Vests are another potentially easy spot. The only people who don't catch my "I wonder if he's carrying concealed" eye who wear vests are bikers- they wear leather vests all the time anyway but besides them, vests aren't too common a fashion item in Northern VA, unlike out West.
Of course what really catches my eye is just a person's overall appearance - I look for possible criminals more than I look for other law abiding CCW's. I'll freely admit that I profile and am pre-judgemental when it comes to appraising potential muggers, etc. - if I'm in a not-so nice area and see a youth dressed in gang-banger clothing then I'll keep an eye on him closer than the guy in the business suit at that same gas station or 7-11.
The fanny pack is - tho more obvious - in same category as the vest in as much as it gets labelled ''carry'' - ''shoot me first'' (by us) LOL.
My thinking is, as a vest user - so what .... and label it instead ''make your best guess''
I know I don't print and also know that I am comfortable. I use a vest a lot for biking and for sure cannot tell with other bikers if they carry or not - and do not assume vest is always carry cover.... same with fanny packs to a degree.
Sixto probably has an ''edge'' re making carry folks but - for me - anyone 'might' be carrying if they have vest or fanny pack. No big deal - I'll try and stay in yellow all time anyways and as long as my piece is genuinely concealed, all is well for me
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
I'm extremely observant,and usually notice knife clips,and buldges,and etc before most people. That being said, I'd never think any of the aforementioned things are a clear give-away for CCW prior to joining this site. I don't think I ever really saw people rocking vests though, even in winter.
"To blame a gun for a mans decision is to foolishly attribute free will to an inanimate object"- Colion Noir.
Here in Colorado I notice 90% of the guys are wearing an un-tucked shirt. Seems to be a mega-trend. Or maybe that many people are carring in Colorado.
If anybody has ever seen the tv series Highlander based on the series of films by the same name, the immortals were able to "sense" when another of their kind was nearby and thus prepare themselves for a fight to the death. It was comparable I guess to a tingling of "spidey sense."
Well, one day last year I'm standing in a line in south Miami and I'm wearing my Banana Republic vest (no longer made) and concealing a Sig P245 in a Blade Tech IWB and one sp mag. It was a hot and muggy day in South Miami and I was very sweaty and uncomfortable. About two steps in front of me was a guy of similar build and wearing similar clothing....but I think HIS vest was a 5*11. And he was printing. But not much. I think he was carrying a 1911 OWB contrasting to my Sig IWB. But suddenly he sort of stiffened and turned right around and stared at me. He looked at me and I at him. We both broke a slight smile and a slightly inclined and polite nod.
I was still standing there in the sweltering heat. Worse we were both getting comments from (forgive a momentary "Potterism" as I'm still reading the book but have now created a hybrid word) SHUGGLES which are the rare non-wizarding folks mixed with our more common sheeple. Me and the other CCW'er were getting comments like: Well BOYS are the FISH biting? Haven't worn the vest since.
I'm now transitioning to a variation of the venerable Hawaiian cover garment. But with a twist. This shirt is innocuous and very ordinary. However it's made from an ultra lightweight fabric, offers wicking properties for sweat and not only has an SPF rating of 30 from the sun but also has a built-in insect repelling feature. That will wash away after about 50 or so machine washes...but heck, who cares?
I'll let y'all know how I blend in when I get the shirt. But for now, the vest AND the belly bag are no longer worn. Although I didn't know the other CCWer personally, I suspect he felt the same way.
Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.
Since starting to carry about a year ago, I've made it my part-time hobby to really look for people carrying when out and about. Here in FL I usually just wear a t-shirt, and I always think that if I were to see myself in public, I'd spot that ever so slight buldge or fold on my right side.
But dang it I've never spied someone carrying yet (that I could tell of course) and no one has ever said a word to me or given me a funny look.
I see vests, extra shirts, knives, belts, and still no guns!
I have been carrying concealed for a more years than I care to remember and over the years my summer time carry has changed more than once. I have worn a fanny pack in the past but don’t anymore, not because it screams gun, but because they now look too “West Coast” in our area. Last summer I wore a vest, this summer it is a loose unbuttoned shirt with a t-shirt or sometimes a vest. If my daily wear makes others wonder why I wear what I wear, it doesn't worry me much as long as it conceals well and does not stand out too much. If other CCW users think they can make me by what I wear, then so be it, as long as they are kept guessing and I don’t have something sticking out so that they know for sure. Next summer I might change again what I use a cover garment, but it still has to have the same criteria, it has to conceal.
I think certain fanny packs are very obvious... especially with the pull strings but I'm a gun guy, I know about these things.
As for the rest... BS! A vest doesn't mean you're CCW any more than going to Mc Donalds means you're a Big Mac!
ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!
"A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his