License list

This is a discussion on License list within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Bumper, To your above point,we down here in FLADAH really appreciate the help from our fellow CCW,ers throughout the rest of the country. If this ...

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Thread: License list

  1. #46
    Distinguished Member Array RSSZ's Avatar
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    Bumper, To your above point,we down here in FLADAH really appreciate the help from our fellow CCW,ers throughout the rest of the country. If this sort of thing happens anywhere else we all need to stick together and fight for our rights. And it is our right. Thanks to the origional poster that informed us all that this was happening. Without him this would have just fell by the wayside. Again,thanks to everybody from us Floridians.-----

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  3. #47
    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
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    Here's the first response:

    Dan,
    Thanks for your email.
    I'm not going to try to persuade you to another viewpoint, because
    clearly
    you think we were wrong in publishing this public information.
    I'm curious; are you from Northwest Florida, and do you regularly read
    our
    newspaper? Let me know, if you have the time.
    Thanks again,
    Pat Rice
    Editor

    And my follow up:
    Not originally from NorthWest Florida. I did spend 2 years in Bonifay, as a beef cattle agent for Holmes County through Cooperative Extension Service. Used to travel through your area quite a bit working with cattle growers and other agents.
    As to persuading me to consider another viewpoint, please try. That was my point entirely: WHAT was the reason for printing the names?
    While I am not a regular subscriber to your paper, I am a permit holder, and that puts me in a postion to voice my opinion, though not in your geographical region. Things that effect permit holders in any part of Florida, may/can impact me. If not now, then later as these type of events set a precedence.
    While I realize what you did is perfectly legal, I am not sure I understand why. My thoughts being that if someone goes through the training and legal hoops to obtain a 'concealed' weapons permit, it is not something they want easily discovered. And while anyone with ill intent could obtain the same information through the same state channels you did, your paper simply made it that much easier.
    So again, I ask with all sincerity: What was the point of printing the list? What did you accomplish? What made it newsworthy? Why not simply state the total number of permit holders? Why so specific as names? What exactly did that accomplish?
    If possible, please feel free to contact me during work hours 07:30 to 15:30 east time at (813) xxx-xxxx. Or after hours at (813) xxx-xxxx.
    Or, if you prefer, email me a number and time that I may contact you.

    Dan


    How'm I doin?

  4. #48
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    license list

    the first reporter wendy victora sent a canned response email to both my wife and i. basically it said if we had issues about the article to please call and she would talk to us. no phone call from her yet. she did call the wife and said that she wasn't responsible for printing the list. sounds like dodging the issue to me. i guess all the emails and phone calls are getting to them. their editorial today said it was right for the state to require background checks for license issue, but not right for the state to charge us for excercising our constitutional right to keep and bear arms. as of today ms. victora has not given out her home address yet and neither has ms. barlow. seems like discrimination/profiling to me, lol. hopefully i can get their addresses and post them just like they did for all the ccw's. thanks again for all the emails and calls. now if only my state rep. will call me back.

  5. #49
    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
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    Dan,
    Thanks for your email.
    We published this public information because we believe there is public
    interest in knowing who in our area has a permit to carry a concealed
    weapon in public. Also, it is a public record, and the people who have
    concealed weapon permits appear to know it's a public record. We didn't
    publish the list due to any political viewpoint. I personally believe
    strongly in the Second Amendment right to bear arms. I also believe the
    public has a right to know who is carrying loaded concealed weapons in
    public places.
    I hope this serves as an adequate answer to your email.
    Pat Rice

    and my response:
    "We published this public information because we believe there is public
    interest in knowing who in our area has a permit to carry a concealed
    weapon in public."
    This is my point: if its concealed, it is NOT meant for the general public to know. If ccw holders wanted everyone to know they had a firearm on them, they would just carry the gun openly. Part of what makes ccw work in reducing crime is that a ccw not only makes him/herself safer by carrying, they also make those who dont carry safer because criminals dont know who is carrying and who is not. Now, it is just that much easier to know. Just read the paper. And yes, some people know/knew its is public record, but that is a far cry from putting it in the newsapaper. Do you publish everyone's tax information? Hunting license holders? DMV records? Prison sentences and records after release?
    In some states, it is forbidden for anyone to publish concealed handgun permit information. I believe that the best choice for Florida's ccw holders is to pursue the same legistation to protect our (ccw holder's) rights and privacy.
    Again, I can see no reason to publish names versus just publishing numbers. I would think that any thug who reads that up to 5k citizens in the local area MAY be carrying at any time would re think his postition on certain types of crime, as he can bet there is a good chance one of his victims may be armed. Now, with an easily found list, he can better his chances.

    Dan

  6. #50
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    Meant to post this link -

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=139880

    It has plenty of discussion on THR too - plus some ''interesting'' details have sprung up about folks in the press!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  7. #51
    Senior Member Array Prospector's Avatar
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    Red face

    Got my response too....

    Thanks for your email.
    I'm not going to try to convince you to see things differently, because clearly you think we were wrong to make public this public information.
    However, a couple of comments in your email cause me to wonder whether you are a regular reader of the Daily News. Specifically, you seem unaware that we regularly publish the names of convicted sex offenders when they move into one of the communities we cover. Also, you seem unaware that we produced a major project recently about sex offenders who have failed to register in our coverage area, and we published all their photos on the front page.
    Are you a regular reader? Let me know if you want.
    Pat Rice
    Editor


    My response follows:

    Thank you for your reply, and no I'm not a local resident
    but rather a civic-minded, law-abiding citizen that gets
    concerned when anyone either knowingly, or through misjudgement puts other law-abiding citizens in potential harms way. I applaud your efforts at notifying the public of dangerous or potentially dangerous people. However, by publishing lists of CCW permit holders also, you are essentially putting them into the same category as the criminal element...and that is just wrong. You don't really say why you feel it necessary to publish CCW permit holders. Simply saying it is of interest to the public is an easy copout. Unlike with sexual predators, I don't recall an organized body demanding that CCW permit holders should be publicly identified. Believe me, the process of
    getting that permit is a very good method to weed out the "criminal" elements. Carrying a weapon brings with it a tremendous amount of
    responsibility and quite frankly, based on various forum discussions, it is clear that CCW holders go that extra length to avoid any situations that might cause escalate to the use of deadly force. Non of us feel
    this is a rebirth of the "Wild West"...we just feel that we have a right to be able to protect ourselves and our loved ones and by publishing our names and addresses, your paper in effect makes targets of us (I use the term "us" in a general sense. I don’t live in your town).

    Again, I can't totally buy the 1st Amendment excuse. Think of it this way. It's legal to utter slang words for describing ethnic people, but is it
    right to do so? I say no. Try using some of those words in your newspaper articles, then stand by them as you do about the CCW issue. If you don't, then I can honestly say, without really knowing you or your writers, that you are all indeed hypocrits.
    "Endeavor To Persevere"
    Chief Dan George

  8. #52
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    Thumbs up

    Prospector - good reply
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  9. #53
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    Well, I got some reavealing information and since we publish information, too....

    My email:

    Mr. Rice:
    I am disgusted to hear that you published a list of concealed carry permit holders in your newspaper recently. You have, undoubtably put a great many of your readers in harm's way. People carry firearms for any number of reasons. Some simply because it is their right, others because an event has put their lives, or the lives of their family, in jeapordy. By it's very nature, concealed carry relies on the carrying of a firearm to be kept confidential. It is the law. I have carried for some time with very few of my closest friends even knowing I have a permit. It is information that is provided on a "need to know" basis. While it may be public information to you, it is information that criminals and those that would do people harm do not normally seek out. But to publish this information so criminals looking for sources of guns or abusive spouses looking for their wife/husband is irresponsible.

    Are you aware that a high percentage of permit holders are police officers that have worked very hard to keep their addresses from the people they have arrested? I can tell you that publishing the names and addresses of police officers, county or state detention officers and certain officers of the court is a felony. Did you know that some companies have established practices of harassing employees that have permits? Did you know that statistically these permit holders come from virtually every walk of life but what they have in common is that they are stable, law abiding citizens? Do you understand that publishing this information could very easily cost the lives of innocent people? Do you even care?

    I understand that you are a gun owner. How about publishing your name, address and birthdate in your newspaper. Show us that you mean what you say when you tell us that this information will not be misused. I am betting you won't. You'll hide behind the excuse that it is "public information" that you feel your readers want to know. And you won't put yourself in harm's way. But you don't hesitate to put others there. I sincerely hope that you don't have a story come across your desk that someone was injured or killed because of the information you have published. I'm glad I don't live in Florida.

    Sincerely,
    Randy A Wiley


    First email response:

    Randy,
    For the record, I have published my address in the newspaper. It's also in
    the phone book. And, someone posted it on the internet on Monday. In case
    you want to stop over for a cup of coffee, I live at 1003 Sandra Lane,
    Mary Esther, FL. My home phone number is 850-581-2425. I would appreciate
    a call before you stop over, so I can make sure the house isn't a mess. We
    can sit on the porch and have a good conversation.

    Thanks,
    Pat Rice
    Editor


    Second email response:

    Mr. Wiley,
    I forgot to add that my birthday is July 16, 1957. For your information,
    though, we have eliminated the birthdates from our list of concealed
    weapon permit holders.

    Thanks,
    Pat Rice
    Editor
    Bumper
    Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.

  10. #54
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    Our Pat has I think had a busy and ''interesting'' day
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  11. #55
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    bumper.. you got that response??!!. i may have to call mr. rice and see if he'll extend that offer to locals. i have to work this weekend but i'll try to set it up soon if he's willing. i'm only about 25 miles from his house.

  12. #56
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    For the life of me I cannot understand how a business person would decide to allow confidential information about people get out of his office, by print or telephone or computer. I don't think this guy really understands concealed carry and its purpose in life. He knows he is safe with us because we are law abiding people by nature but the crowd that may browse this forum may not all be on the straight and narrow. Ticks me off.
    As you slide down the banister of life,
    May the splinters never point the wrong way.
    ---
    NRA Life Member

  13. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by craig45
    bumper.. you got that response??!!. i may have to call mr. rice and see if he'll extend that offer to locals. i have to work this weekend but i'll try to set it up soon if he's willing. i'm only about 25 miles from his house.
    That's what I got. Whether it's his actual address and phone number remains to be seen. If you want I can forward you his emails and you can call him just before you show up. After all, that's all he asked was a phone call before showing up. Take the emails in case he gets nasty....
    Bumper
    Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.

  14. #58
    Member Array Realleycat's Avatar
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    So far it seems as though the reponses to this have been courteous. I hope it remains this way. We don't need the hate mail types making us look bad, or lookig like what we aren't.

    The bottom line is the law needs to be changed!!!!

    The media will never report news in a responsible manner. They will attempt to create a story for a headline...

  15. #59
    Senior Member Array CombatEffective's Avatar
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    I say we have a CombatCarry.com field trip and all show up at his house for that conversation at the same time. Of course, we should all take turns calling just before we all get there. :)
    Shooters' Legacy

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  16. #60
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    Dear Sir,

    I not in your state, so I am not a reader of your newspaper, but as a carry permit holder, I am appalled that you would print the names and addresses of fellow permit holders in your area.

    I was the victim of endless threatening harassment from an ex-boyfriend. The months of legal red tape resulted in an order of protection - a piece of paper only as good as the willingness to abide by it. Meanwhile, the only thing between me and him beating my door down was my handgun. I can tell you what it's like to white knuckle a semiauto while I waited over 20 minutes for the police to arrive after my ex called from a payphone, threatening to "finish things."

    As a woman, my smaller size and weaker physical strength makes me an easier target for robbery and rape, reasons why I, along with many other women, decided to arm ourselves. Some of us have had terrible things happen to us and have moved, armed ourselves, and had our new homes and phone numbers unlisted - an ineffective tactic if that information can be purchased from the state and published for all to see, as you have done. You believe there is public interest in knowing who is carrying - you're right. Those who want to do us harm are interested, and now they know who we are, where we are, and that we are armed. How many people have you endangered by printing the names and addresses of carry permit holders?

    As permit holders (and gun owners in general), we are walk around with a big scarlet A on our chests. I've been called a racist, a baby-killer, and a paranoid freak, all because I am just a gun owner. When the list is read, how many neighbors and friends will ostracize my fellow permit holders, and how many will be fired out of fear?

    Concealed carry is just that, sir - concealed. It is our advantage, our element of surprise in defending ourselves. You have taken that away, and now you have put us at risk.

    Betty Wendt
    "Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa

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