This is a discussion on License list within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Bravo Betty!...
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
As an ex-EMT and ex-Corrections Officer, I find your actions in publishing a list of CCW holders abhorrent. I do not know what the life-status and occupations of these holders is, but, at best, this publishing decision was ill-considered, at worst, criminally contributory. The bearing of arms, in any capacity, is no game.
I am not a Florida resident. I have, however, spent a majority of my life helping to salvage the remains of life for those unable, or unwilling, to do so themselves. You have made the lives of these law-abiding citizens a marketable commodity. However "public" this information was, actively broadcasting it was an immoral act, without regard for the safety of the individuals, or their families.
This is my first post and I can’t think of a better topic to wade in on. (I live in Virginia (but have relatives in N. Fla.), hold a permit, and regularly carry a Bersa .380 in a Fobus paddle holster.) The publishing of any personal information for ratings or newspaper sales is reprehensible. I’ve enjoyed many of the responses to the various posts in this thread – but not the ones from the editor.
One question I haven’t seen asked yet is, “How great was the public outcry or public curiosity that demanded Mr. Rice and the paper publish this information?” How many citizens, readers of that particular paper, expressed their desire for the information? Did even ONE reader ask for it. If not, then Mr. Rice’s claim is so much organic fertilizer.
I especially liked the idea of sending e-mails to the editor; but is that enough? Shouldn’t the entire staff of the paper in question be able to know how we feel? The entire staff directory is located on the paper’s website at:
And what are the people at the center of the story like? The following was found online in the website of the City of Destin, in the City Council minutes:
Councilmember Seevers stated that as a public official it is a part of the job to take the brunt of editorials, political cartoons and misc. articles written about members of Council; but expressed anger over an article recently written in the Daily News by Wendy Victora who wrote that she hoped a hurricane would wipe out Destin in order “to wipe that smug grin off of its municipal face.” Ms. Seevers was appalled that anyone would publicly wish for any type of catastrophe in order to make a political point. Councilmember Williges expressed agreement with Ms. Seevers. [emphasis added]
Is this Ms. Victora’s usual professional standard? If so, why is she kept on as a reporter?
Now for the part that’ll get me on the bad side of some of you reading and posting here. I’m a technical trainer and sometimes a technical writer. While I agree with nearly all the sentiments expressed here, if we’re going to be writing and e-mailing the paper and our elected representatives we have to put our best face on. We’ll get more serious attention when we use the spell checkers and sometimes even the grammar checkers available to us. I hate being corrected as much as the next person, though when I work as a tech writer I have editors who can absolutely shred me and my best efforts with good intentions and with a smile on their face. No offense intended and I won’t bring it up again.
Welcome aboard!Originally Posted by woodstock
FWIW, I wrote the following on Sunday in response to Mr. Rice's response (post#22) to my original letter to the editor (post #4).
I have yet to receive a response.Pat,
Thanks for the reply. You say that the list has high public interest. I don't exactly understand what that means. Who, exactly, is interested? The neighbor of a concealed weapons permit holder? How is it any of his or her business? It's not a list of who has guns...
I don't think there are alot of folks wondering how many of their neighbors are legally carrying a weapon, do you?
You said you are a gun owner, do you have a license to carry it concealed? If so, are you comfortable knowing that your name, PO box, and birthday are printed in the paper? And if not, then what does being a gun owner have to do with publishing a list of concealed weapon license holders?
You mention that a recent law was passed that, "allows citizens to use reasonable force it
they believe they are being threatened."
Have you read that law?
We (Floridians) already have that right.
2004 Florida statute 776.012 states in part: "the person is justified in the use of deadly force only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony."
Anything that makes it easier for a law-abiding citizen of this state to defend his or herself and family is a good thing.
NRA Life Member
Northwest Florida Defensive Pistol Shooters Member
Way to go Betty, your points are well stated.
I have a feeling they'll fall on deaf ears, but I had to get my 2¢ in anyway.
That's just terrible. I hope your ex leaves you alone.
Ummm... No, Mr. Rice, they just wait 'til you're not at home.he told me if anything it will stop the criminals from breaking into our homes since they know we have guns.
Welcome to the boards!
"Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa
The only hope of "reaching them" is a response like Betty's!
All the guys in the world can ***** and moan and they will just kiss us off. When a woman speaks up about her abusive past and how this could help the perp find her, even a dumb-ass must pause for a moment and give it an iota of thought that maybe this wasn't such a brilliant idea.
Betty, thanks for taking them on!
the editor patrick rice actually called me back. he wanted to know that if we met, would i just yell at him, call him names, etc. i told him no, that i just wanted to explain that most ccw'ers have a reason (psycho ex, already been threatened, victim of attack, job related, because it's our right) for carrying. he said he realized that most ccw'ers are very private individuals and resent gov. intrusion of any kind. i'm right i hope. i also told him that by printing the addresses and d.o.b.'s he really made it easy to find these people. he said he's been rethinking printing some of the info so i guess the emails and calls from everybody have had some effect. he did say that my wife's explaining about her ex caused him to remove us from the list. i told him that there are other's in the same boat. he did agree to come to my work the next time he's in town. the office is right across the street. if he does show in the near future i'll let everybody know how it went. i also am trying to get an appointment with sen. peaden. the kid at works mom is the senators secretary when he's in town.
I've already been in touch with the Governor about this. He said he'd look into fixing the problem.Originally Posted by craig45
Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.
There must be a fair number of people from this and other forums who have voiced their displeasure at the paper. Wonder if it will hit the news, maybe that is what the paper has in mind. Blow the issue up into a national shouting match, sells more papers.
As you slide down the banister of life,
May the splinters never point the wrong way.
NRA Life Member
I'm not defending the paper, nor the editor. One thing we might bear in mind is that the final objective of the journalist is to sell papers. Unfortunately, sleazy or sensationalistic reporting sells, hence the "Star," "National Enquirer," et al. My guess would be that these misguided people thought this would be a good busybody issue that would have people buying papers to check up on their neighbors. Unfortunately, they didn't do their homework and failed to consider that their "investigative reporting" might put others in jeopardy. This, IMHO, is irresponsible at best.Originally Posted by FortyFive
I admit that I have not written to the paper yet. My hat is off to all of you who responded. You are to be commended on the eloquence and civility of your comments.
Edited to add: I sent them my two cents. If I get an interesting reply I'll post it.
Last edited by SSKC; May 26th, 2005 at 12:08 AM.
It's the good ole American way, but I think Mr Rice really made a bad business decision. I think we can all agree here that there honestly is no "demand" for this information. People aren't going to say, "Boy that Pat Rice is right on top of the news printing that list of permit holders, I think I am going to buy his paper more, or better yet subscribe." Rather the reverse is true. People read it and moved on after either finding something of interest or not. It will not have any effect on their buying habits or trends. For permit holders, however, I bet he lost at least some subscribers/readers. We're all pissed off and most of us are not on that list and never will be. Think of how the local people feel. For a small newspaper with a small area of circulation, every subscription counts. I'm betting he just lost a bunch of them.....Originally Posted by SSKC
Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.
I agree wholeheartedly. I wanted to make the point that the journalist's job is to sell papers. Unfortunately, in today's media there is little concern for the effects or even the accuracy of the trash they produce. Dan Rather/CBS and Newsweek are prime examples.Originally Posted by Bumper
I hope Mr. Rice learned that a) he made an error, and b) these concealed carry people are essentially "certified good guys." He got a lot of feedback, most if not all of it firm but courteous. Maybe one day he'll be moved to do a story on how we should be respected, not feared, and that we're just average people with an above-average sense of ethics and responsibility.
My note to him was fairly short. Essentially it said "Think before you print."
Yeah...potentially around 5000!Originally Posted by Bumper
Kimber Ultra CDP Elite STS II
A gun is a tool...the real weapon is between your ears!