This is a discussion on shot placement within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; i know in times of stress the best reaction is to go for center of mass, but if you have the time to really be ...
August 6th, 2007 03:57 PM
i know in times of stress the best reaction is to go for center of mass, but if you have the time to really be able to place your shot for self defense purposes, wheres the best to eliminate the threat the quickest?
and also since if i ever heaven forbid do have to use this info, more then one bullet is flying out my barrel. in what order to where?
August 6th, 2007 03:57 PM
August 6th, 2007 04:03 PM
In my opinion (and this is opinion), if you have enough time to wonder where you should aim you have enough time to consider other options besides deadly force.
First shots should always go to the largest target, center of mass. If you have need of follow up shots and time to consider, then go ahead and aim where you'd like, provided the threat is not already what would be considered neutralized.
Again, this is just Lima theory, but I'm not taking any chances. I'm always going for center mass.
August 6th, 2007 04:10 PM
August 6th, 2007 04:32 PM
Your aiming for the largest area, with the least ammount of error, in the shortest ammount of time....
the characteristics of most SD encounters ammong civilians make the attainment of pinpoint accuracy both unrealistic and unnecessary, and for the most part getting to full extension and using your sights maybe unlikely.
Therefore generally the Accepted level of accuracy is basically whats called Defensive accuracy.
Defensive accuracy is a level of accuracy that allows the shooter to keep all shots in an assailants Vital area. If a COM hold is used on a fully exposed target, this area is approximately a 9-inch-circle (paper plate). This level of accuracy is the MINIMUM level of accuracy that is generally acceptable for self defense.
“Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll
Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!
August 6th, 2007 04:33 PM
- Janq targets what he can see most visibly which most often will be CoM
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
"A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing
August 6th, 2007 04:38 PM
It almost has to be COM - simply because of speed requirements and achieving hits - of some sort. Larger target - simple as that.
As to the finer points, as we always mention ..... direct CNS hits are about the only hits likely to give immediate incapacitation - and so if there was any relative luxury of time, for sighted shooting with deliberation, the head shot has to be the one par excellence.
Problems with COM are - deflection due to bone (ribs, sternum) ... and the fact that it is possible to miss vital structures quite easily. Unfortunately, a hyped up BG (also maybe on ''something'') - will not necessarily cease hostilities fast just because he is bleeding.
Remember tho - a slow hit is way better than three faster misses .... and so for anyone's own skills and training level, there is an optimum useable rate of fire to enable good COM hits.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
August 6th, 2007 04:58 PM
Without getting into minutae, if you have the time to aim, and it is available: the head. A good HP of at least 9mm will generally open more space than is comfortable in the cranium.
Under pressure, and while moving- the mantra is still COM, "until the threat stops", which if you have adequately practiced your dry-fire and recovery, would in many circles be referred to as "slide-lock".
August 6th, 2007 05:09 PM
Ask an expert...
To directly quote Tom Perroni's detailed writing on exactly this subject...
"When I teach on the subject of stopping power I teach about the “Anatomical Theory of Stopping Power” The theory that states there are only two places on the human body that you can shoot a subject and get immediate incapacitation:
The cranio-ocular cavity (about the size of a business card). This is the area on the head between the eyebrow line and the mustache line (Right between the eyes).
The Cervical Spine. From the base of the brain to the top of the collar bone (In the area of the Throat.)
Both of the above mentioned areas, when hit with a bullet, will shut down the central nervous system, thus incapacitating your attacker. There are also schools that teach the Pelvic Girdle shot. I am not a big proponent of this. When teaching I often ask my students “How many of you have seen a chicken get its head cut off?” “What happens once this happens?” The answer I most often get is it runs around for several minutes. My response is if a 10lb chicken can run around for several minutes without its head, what do you think a 200lb man bent on bringing the fight to you will be able to do with a small hole or two? (Adrenalin is a powerful drug) I often get asked, “Well, what if I shoot him directly in the heart?” The answer is: It will take about 15 seconds to bleed out. How much damage can the attacker inflict in that time?"
Those interested in reading more should look at
"Handgun Stopping Power" found on Tom's website at this link..
A man in the hands of his enemies is flesh, and shudderingly vulnerable. - author unknown
August 6th, 2007 05:41 PM
Some things are better left alone, and to allow the info seeker to seek the answer themselves.
August 6th, 2007 08:09 PM
I routinely practice 2 quick shots to the chest (pointed or aimed - depending on distance) and 1 shot to the head (again, with distance determining how much I look at my sights).
August 6th, 2007 08:36 PM
Is this the zen of shooting advice?
Originally Posted by SIXTO
August 6th, 2007 08:47 PM
Yes it is. It is a journey that each one must take and can only find the answer for himself.
Originally Posted by SelfDefense
However, I would like to offer this bit of direction in the journey.
1.) Despite all training, when faced with a BG, a shooter tends to hit where his eyes are looking. That is not always COM.
2.) Trying doing windsprints (or some other activity that will bump your adrenaline up), run up to the target, draw, and fire. You might be surprised at how your point of aim changes.
Yea I saw that movie with Tom Cruise too. I think it was a firm crossed the line from self-defense to murder when he administered the shots to the head. Just a thought.
Originally Posted by Skivson
I will support gun control when you can guarantee all guns are removed from this planet. That includes military and law enforcement. When you can accomplish that, then I will be the last person to lay down my gun. Then I will carry the weapon that replaces the gun.
August 6th, 2007 08:56 PM
friesepferd shot placement
One item that I did not see mentioned was the fact if you are going for a shot other than COM , and under the pressure that you will be in, what happens if you miss? Do you have time to check for innocent by-standers? I for one will take the advice of my instructor whom has had FAR more training than I . 2 shots COM.
August 6th, 2007 09:13 PM
You could say that 2x COM is an imperfect (default) plan...but it's less imperfect than just about every other plan.
It'll certainly be easier to defend in court than starting out with head shots...unless of course the BG has his thumb on a button protruding from his sleeve...
August 6th, 2007 09:55 PM
Or taught in a good defense class/school.
Originally Posted by SIXTO
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
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