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Cross Country Road Trip

4K views 49 replies 23 participants last post by  MickGIS 
#1 ·
Hi All,

My oldest is heading to Rutgers to get her PhD and we are driving her car out there the end of this month. I have been researching the state laws for CCW and simple handgun ownership and transport. I opted to take I70 for most of the trip rather than I80 because the CCW laws in the states we would cross on the southerly route are much better. On I80 we would cross states that prohibit or severely restrict my Colorado CCW: NE, IA, and IL. The last few hundred miles we end up on I80 anyway.
* Kansas: recognizes my Colorado CCW
* Missouri: recognizes my Colorado CCW
* Illinois: does not honor my Colorado CCW and does not have Peaceable Journey laws so my unloaded weapon gets locked in the trunk. Thanks goodness we’re not in Illinois for very long.
* Kentucky: recognizes my Colorado CCW
* Indiana: recognizes my Colorado CCW
* Ohio: does not honor my Colorado CCW but honors my Florida non-resident; you can carry in a car if you Open carry only if you have a recognized CCW. Other wise the weapon must be locked in the glove compartment or in a locked case that is in plain sight
* Pennsylvania: recognizes my Colorado CCW
* New Jersey: does not honor my Colorado CCW and does not have Peaceable Journey laws so my unloaded weapon gets locked in the trunk. Under most circumstances it is unlawful to have in my possession hollow point ammunition. I decided against hardball to limit over penetration so I am making the trip with semi-wad cutters.

Anyone have any tips for these states or know of any gun related idiosyncrasies these states have?

Cheers,
Mick
 
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#2 ·
Ohio: does not honor my Colorado CCW but honors my Florida non-resident; you can carry in a car if you Open carry only if you have a recognized CCW. Other wise the weapon must be locked in the glove compartment or in a locked case that is in plain sight
Check the OH deal - since a few months ago IIRC the mandated open carry in vehicle has been rescinded.

That's a long treck - one I did four years ago - before I had carry options in KS or OH.
 
#3 ·
Be aware that violating a prohibited or posted place in Kansas is it's own special crime, not leave else trespass. Since CC is new to us, there are plenty of signs about (most of them incorrect). You might see some posted parking lots, but those carry no legal weight.

All Kwik Shops are posted.
 
#4 ·
Ohio's car carry laws were changed as of March, 2007.

If you have a CHL recognized by the State of Ohio, you may carry a loaded pistol in a car in one of the following ways:

1. The loaded gun is in a holster secured on your person. (Ohio law previously required carrying a firearm in a holster in plain sight. This provision has been removed from the law)
2. The loaded handgun is in a closed case, bag, box, or other container that is in plain sight and that has a lid, a cover, or a closing mechanism with zipper, snap, or buckle, which lid, cover or closing mechanism must be opened for a person to gain access to the handgun( read purse, briefcase, fannypack that is zipped shut or latched), or
3. The loaded handgun is securely encased by being stored in a closed, locked glove compartment or in a case that is locked (no plain sight requirement)

We still have some work to do on car carry but this was an improvement.

One other caution: If stopped by law enforcement for a law enforcement, purpose you must keep you hands in plain sight, do not touch or attempt to touch your gun (felony), and immediately inform the officer that you are licensed and have handgun with you and its location. "Immediately" is not defined and some folks have found themselves at odds with selected law enforcement agencies, so inform right away even if you must interrupt the offficer when he/she approaches you.

The concealed carry publication is available from the AG website at www.ag.state.oh.us

Have a good trip.
 
#5 ·
I think you can't legally do what you plan. The peaceable journey laws won't apply in NJ, because you will be stopping there and it is not a place where you are permitted to carry.

My understanding of the peaceable journey law is that you must be going from one place where you are legal to another where you will be legal.

Unless Jersey recognizes one of your licenses, you are out of luck.
 
#31 ·
Common were not that screwed up.:scruntiny: Us serfs are allowed up to 15 rounders.:nutkick: Hollow points are fine to have at home and the range and in between. You would NOT be allowed to have hollow points. But there is the whole other problem of the journey ending in NJ. Peaceful passage does not cover you. Are you taking more than two cars by chance? If so you could separate the gun into two cars would be legal. To be classified as a gun in NJ you must have all the pieces in the same place. Mags and ammo don't count. SO frame in one car and slide in another. You would be golden. But then again you could just stash it in the trunk some where and say f-it. Maybe still take it apart also. :22a:
 
#7 ·
On I80 we would cross states that prohibit or severely restrict my Colorado CCW: NE, IA, and IL.
Sorry about Nebraska..........we're working on that! :embarassed:

Until Nebraska adds reprocity, I can't carry in Colorado either, as they don't recognize Nebraska's permit or my Florida (non-resident) permit. :icon_neutral:

Hopefully we'll get that fixed soon as our corn is so much prettier than Kansas's............ :rolleyes:

Mike
 
#8 ·
If you can get a copy before you begin your trip, the Traveler's Guide to the Firearm Laws of the Fifty States, 2007 edition, will be a big help.

I recommend you take it with you.

http://www.gunlawguide.com/
 
#9 ·
Not to hijack, but I love how CCW laws are changing. I recently made a trip from Oklahoma to Kentucky and then on to Florida. Illinois and South Carolina were the only two states that forced me to unarm. Luckily I wasn't in Illinois for long. South Carolina's law still surprise me, they are just so much different than the laws of other states in the region. Looking back, I should have gone back west and then south to avoid SC, but we were in a hurry so the gun just got locked in a safe in the trunk.
 
#13 ·
You're going to have a major problem in New Jersey.
You're not passing through. It's your destination State.
AFS
Hi AFS,

Yes, I thought New Jersey would present special challenges. But strictly speaking I am just passing through NJ as I will be flying home to Colorado from the Newark airport. The NJ state police stated that the weapon must be unloaded and locked in a case which is in turn locked in the trunk. Is it against the law in NJ to merely have a weapon in your possession even if it is unloaded, locked in a case and out of reach?

Cheers,
Mick
 
#12 ·
I've been driving back and forth between NoVA and KCMO all summer.

In KC take I-435 to the south/east. In the Overland Park area you will have traffic, but it is still better than going through town most of the time. You'll have a fair bit of traffic until you get east of KC about 15-20 miles then it thins out. MO is good with carry and you can car carry in MO without a permit. Troopers will give you 74-75, but I understand not more, I haven't tested more and run 74 in MO.

At St Louis take I-270 around the north side. There is an exit about mile 33 where you can get gas, fuel and disarm less than a mile from the IL border. You'll know you are close because of the MO welcome center signs. The area just across the state line in IL is a speed trap area for the local PD and there is some construction as well, so watch it. I have encountered back-ups for the construction zone as you come around the curve, you'll see what I mean when you get there.

If you fuel at that spot in MO then you will not need to stop in IL (takes me 2 hrs to cross IL). Just over the border into IN there is a rest area you can stop and re-arm. If you wait a few more miles there are plenty of places to stop for food and fuel in Terra Haute. IL is a 65 state and I run low 70s without issue so far. I have tested that.

Indy has been a mess all summer. There is a lot of construction around I-70 on the east side of Indy where it meets I-465, so watch that area. Indiana is 65 around Terra Haute and 70 except around Indy where it is 55. I run 74 in IN most of the time with no problem. Indy is a special case. When it is moving it is really moving.

Good to go through Ohio but all the rest stops are posted areas. Also around Dayton you will be in construction for awhile. Ohio is a 65 state but I run low 70s and have tested that without issue. At the last rest area you will want to stop again to dis-arm because WV doesn't recognize your permit. You will be in WV for about 18 miles (I take I-470 because I-70 through Wheeling is closed to through traffic) and can stop about 2-3 miles into PA at the rest area to re-arm. Now if you head up to I-80 while in Ohio (I-71?) you will miss WV.

Not sure why you listed Kentucky unless you are taking a side trip down there for some reason. You don't go through KY on I-70.

WV is a 70 state and PA is 55/65 depending. Run with traffic and no problem. There are usually so many cars on the road that I don't have a choice but to run with traffic. They will be averaging 10-15 over unless there is a problem. Troopers don't seem to mind it. I imagine there are enough folks doing 20+ for them to get. If you take the tollway at New Stanton where I-70 and I-76 merge there is usually a traffic jam due to construction at that exit. East of Somerset on the tollway they are working on the road east of the tunnel. That causes some traffic issues due barriers and trucks restricted to the left lane. It clears quickly so far.

From there our paths diverge and I have to dis-arm again for MD before hitting the Old Dominion. You 'll be good until you reach eastern PA. Since you cannot stay/stopover in NJ with a pistol you may want to get a hotel say in Easton, PA with a room safe or deposit box at the desk. A bit of a pain since it is an hour or so from Rutgers, but the alternative is to leave it at home.

As a side note, I'm not sure why you wouldn't stay on 70/76 until you reach I-81 about mid-PA and then head up to I-80. Or stay on the Tollway to Philly and head up that way. Just a suggestion. Some folks don't like toll roads so they avoid them. IIRC the bridge on I-80 is a toll at the PA/NJ line.

If you want to know about any potholes or such let me know. I am familiar with all of them because I seem to hit them all. If you haven't driven this route be ready for a sight when you come around the curve just after I-57 joins I-70 at Effingham, IL. Also driving by Vandalia, IL look to the south near the water tower, there's a big silver dragon someone made just in front of the tower. They can hook propane to it so it breaths fire, although I haven't seen that yet.

This travelogue brought to you by someone who has logged over 12K miles on I-70 since May. I'll be westbound again on Friday.

Safe travels.
 
#14 ·
I've been driving back and forth between NoVA and KCMO all summer...

... You 'll be good until you reach eastern PA. Since you cannot stay/stopover in NJ with a pistol you may want to get a hotel say in Easton, PA with a room safe or deposit box at the desk. A bit of a pain since it is an hour or so from Rutgers, but the alternative is to leave it at home...
Thanks Scott for all the information and advice.

So in NJ you cannot even have a pistol in your procession even if it is unloaded, locked in a case and locked in the trunk? Would the United Airline agent give me trouble when I declare the unloaded weapon in my checked luggage?

Man, what a pain.
 
#15 ·
Handguns (all guns?) are actually outright banned in NJ. Ownership and possession is strictly through "exemptions" to the ban (FID cards). Really sad. I would call the NJSP and the airport that you plan to use and ask them about this.
New York has been arresting people from out of state that attempt to declare a firearm at an airport because they are claiming that FOPA doesn't protect you since you are really making two seperate trips (one to NY and then from NY to your destination) which is BS if you ask me but that's how they are doing it here so I would at least contact the NJSP and ask what their stance is. Try sending them an email so that if the response is positive then you can at least have a printout of who you spoke with and what they had to say.
 
#16 ·
My the road rise to you

I scanned over the other comments and some have cautioned you about the N.J. hollow points law. But here it is--

Transportation & Use of Hollow Point Ammunition by Sportsmen
http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_hollow.html



I have a relative right out of High School that will be a first semester freshman going to Rutgers. He will be living on the Livingston Campus. Your daughter is welcome to his e-mail address if she wants a local contact.

N.J. is the land of diners. While your there you should eat at 3 or 4. Do not be afraid to tryout a family run diner over a familiar national restaurant chain. My pick in that area would b Somerset Diner, 1040 Easton Ave., Somerset, NJ - (908) 828-5424. Somerset is the town next to New Brunswick.

At many intersections in N.J. you can not make a left turn across oncoming traffic. You have to use the “jug handle” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jughandle
 
#17 ·
You asked, would United give you a hard time...when you declare?

THe problem isn't United. If you hang around this board and similar such as packing4life or the now apparently defunct packing.org, you quickly find out that declaring a gun at either a NY or NJ airport is a highly risky business. Getting stopped, even with it in your trunk and even with Federal law on your side, is risky. Apparently they do things their own way and though sued from time to time, continue to do so.

Since NJ is your destination and you are not licensed to have a gun there, the idea that you will be O.K. at the airport seems dubious.

I liked the suggestion someone else gave of staying overnight in PA and just driving your daughter to Rutgers. But, apparently you have air tickets back to home from Newark, so that won't work. If you can change your air tickets, stay in PA and fly home from PHL.

Now, I personally think the behavior of NY and NJ is legally bankrupt, and Congress should pass a peaceable journey law with teeth; $1000.00 fine for an officer who violates it; $10,000 fine to a governmental entity that violates it. But hey, I don't make the laws and snow will melt in Antarctica before Congress protects law abiding folks with a solid real peaceable journey law. This is one area ripe for a Federal preemption but it won't happen. That is, a license issues in one state to a resident of that state should be good all over the US, no complex gotyahs, just straight up mandatory reciprocity.
 
#18 ·
MickGIS

If you are traveling in NE , I know that we have open carry laws, We can carry in plain sight with the exception of Omaha NE. You might check to see if non-residents are treated differently, but I do not think so.


SleepingZ
 
#21 ·
The scary thing is people have been arrested at NYC airports for simply CONNECTING through the airports (JFK/La Guardia). I would NEVER knowingly schedule a flight connection through those airports when checking a firearm in baggage. I currently live in CT, so these airports are a REAL divert possibility, whether it was pre-known connection or...not. Handguns are just fine in CT with the issued pistol permit, aka "legal" to have at the destination/origin...

Weather (especially in the NE) or maintenance divert? Airline pilot strike? Have a checked/declared gun that's legal at your point of departure and intended point of destination? Well, sucks to be you if you get diverted to a NYC airport through no fault of your own! :rolleyes:

Not sure about Newark, but I'd expect nothing less from the fine NJ airport/police folks. :aargh4:
 
#25 ·
Hi Folks,

Thanks to everyone for their responses. It looks like I won't be traveling with my weapon after all; I wouldn't be legal in New Jersey. I booked my flight home using United Airlines Frequent Flyer miles and be damned if I can get them changed to fly home from Pennsylvania. Even if I could I can’t figure out what to do with the weapon while in New Jersey.

Cheers,
Mick
 
#26 ·
MickGIS,
There is no need to go defenseless 2/3's of the way across the country.
Here is the solution.Carrry your weapon as usual loaded with hollow points, not wadcutters.When you reach Philadelphia(or any nearby point in PA before crossing into the PRNJ),go to a main,(not local)UPS shipping point and overnite the firearm back to Colorado to a person you trust,neighbor,relative,etc.
Then continue to Rutgers,drop off the vehicle with your daughter and fly back to CO from Newark with no worries.
Will this scenario work for you?
 
#30 ·
Just Checked with UPS

There is no problem sending the firearm overnite to a friend or relative back in CO.No need to involve a gunshop.
No ammo can be included and an adult signature is all thats reguired at the delivery point.The recipient must be legally able to receive it.
If MickGIS is willing to pay for this overnite charge ,his problem is solved.
 
#33 ·
There is no problem sending the firearm overnite to a friend or relative back in CO.No need to involve a gunshop.
No ammo can be included and an adult signature is all thats reguired at the delivery point.The recipient must be legally able to receive it.
If MickGIS is willing to pay for this overnite charge ,his problem is solved.
That still doesn't seem completely "kosher". I thought an individual could only ship direct to the manufacturer or a valid FFL holder and then it could be shipped directly back to the owner. I'd think he'd need to use his real name, too, because how would the Feds know he's not selling it across state lines, especially if it's sent to a different name?

I've heard of people shipping firearms to Alaska because of the whole Canada thing. However, it seems like they're shipping them to a gun store, lodge or guide which are all most likely FFL holders. I'm genuinely curious about this one... :confused:
 
#46 · (Edited)
Hi Folks,

Here is what UPS said:
Dear Michael,

Thank you for your e-mail. An Individual can only ship firearms to a Gun Manufacturer for repair or adjustment only. This is contingent on the individual not being prohibited by Federal, State or local law to ship firearms.

Please be aware that the shipment of a firearm from an individual to an individual is prohibited in the UPS system.

Additional information regarding the shipment of firearms in the UPS system is available at the following links:

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/prepare/guidelines/firearms.html
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/service/tariff.html?WT.svl=Foote

Please contact us if you need any additional assistance.

Scott H.
UPS Customer Service
I responded to Scott with this message:
Hi Scott,

Thanks for the quick response.

I navigated to the the link you provided http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/prepare/guidelines/firearms.html
I am confused because Federal law states that you can ship a firearm to yourself and the UPS site states in part:

Special Procedures for Shipping Firearms

Use These UPS Services for Your Firearm Shipment
Firearms will be transported only between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors, as defined in the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, law enforcement agencies of the United States or of any department or agency thereof and law enforcement agencies of any state or department agency, or political subdivision thereof, and between persons not otherwise prohibited from shipping firearms by federal, state or local law and when such shipment complies with all applicable federal, state and local laws.




You see I am not transferring ownership of the firearm nor selling it in any manner nor involving another person. In addition UPS has allowed me to ship my firearm to my certified FFL gunsmith. So in this case if I ship it to my FFL gunsmith may I use the Stroudsburg, PA UPS Customer Center?

Cheers,
Mick
 
#47 ·
From the ATF website

(B8)May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A.A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee of any State.A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.
In addition Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
You may also ship a firearm to yourself in care of another person:however the person receiving the package and holding it for you MUST NOT OPEN THE PACKAGE.
(18 U.S.C 922a)(2)(A),922(a)(3)922(a)(5) and 922(e),27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30)
 
#48 ·
(B8)May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A.A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee of any State.A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.
In addition Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
You may also ship a firearm to yourself in care of another person:however the person receiving the package and holding it for you MUST NOT OPEN THE PACKAGE.
(18 U.S.C 922a)(2)(A),922(a)(3)922(a)(5) and 922(e),27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30)
Hi PeterGunn,

Thanks for digging that up. I tried to convince UPS of that and they fell back to their "it's company policy" position.

Cheers,
MickGIS
 
#50 ·
Ammo

Hi Folks,

I have decided to ship my firearm home via FedEx from Pennsylvania. I am thinking that I will just check my ammo in my checked bag; neither the airlines nor TSA say you must declare ammo, just firearms. What do you people think?

Cheers,
MickGIS
 
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