Penna. church policy re: CCW

Penna. church policy re: CCW

This is a discussion on Penna. church policy re: CCW within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Yes, I know. Church carry of concealed weapons is legal in my Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Here's what this thread is about, and it will have ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array xercise2nd's Avatar
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    Penna. church policy re: CCW

    Yes, I know. Church carry of concealed weapons is legal in my Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Here's what this thread is about, and it will have application to other states in which it is legal to carry at church:

    In order to secure the right to carry in church (again, in Pennsylvania), what wording should be included in a church's legal document (such as amendments, by-laws) to clearly and irrevokably state that concealed carry is welcomed?

    Now, I am under the impression that if a church had a no-gun policy that must be honored, and failure to comply is considered trespass. What I am after here is moving from the gray area of simply no policy which might be changed to a no-gun policy in the event some sheeple rise to power and exert their anti-gun attitudes , thereby pre-empting that possible scenario.

    (This question of the thread is probably most pertinent in churches which have either congregational or elder local rule. I suppose it would open a can of worms for those churches which have regional or national leadership and policy making.)

    Any lawyers from the membership care to chime in?
    "Our Constitution was made only for a religious and moral people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other." --- John Adams
    (1735-1826) Founding Father, 2nd US President
    Source: Oct. 11, 1798; Address to the military


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    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    ??Churches are private property, so what they say goes. Depending on how strongly you and your fellows support the Second Amendment, a simple statement that your church body recognizes the right to the defense of self and life to be an inalienable, God-given right, that should be about as clear as you could get, charter wise. And clearly, verbatim, a denunciation of the united nations decree that self defense is not a human right. Be financially prepared. One day, it will cost you tax-exempt status.

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    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    In MN the church, just like any other establishment, has to post/inform us if they don't want us to carry. It looks likes what you are trying to do is get a church to state publicly that they allow guns. If I am reading this correctly why rock the boat. It would have been harder for us permit holders if the law read that establishments had to post if they wanted or allowed guns. Most places won't go through the expense. So, unless I am not understanding you, I say leave well enough alone. Leave the burden and expense on the anti-gun folks to post.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

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  4. #4
    Senior Member Array JohnKelly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xercise2nd View Post
    Yes, I know. Church carry of concealed weapons is legal in my Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Here's what this thread is about, and it will have application to other states in which it is legal to carry at church:

    In order to secure the right to carry in church (again, in Pennsylvania), what wording should be included in a church's legal document (such as amendments, by-laws) to clearly and irrevokably state that concealed carry is welcomed?
    How about this:

    "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    I don't understand -- If it is legal to CCW in church, why does *anything* need to be in the church's charter? Is it in anticipiation of perhaps one day PA making it illegal (and thereby granting permission)?

  5. #5
    Member Array xercise2nd's Avatar
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    The sheeple rising to power are not politicos. They're church members. If enough of them are anti-gun, and yes, the church is private property, then they can vote to ban carry in church.

    Again what is at question here is: what wording can be put into the church's constitution as bylaw or amendment, which will secure the right to carry in said institution as long as it exists? (Sorry that this wasn't clearer previously.)

    Rob's idea (without going into the UN portion) may be on the right track.
    "Our Constitution was made only for a religious and moral people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other." --- John Adams
    (1735-1826) Founding Father, 2nd US President
    Source: Oct. 11, 1798; Address to the military

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    Yes, Rob's idea is on the right track, however depending on how the church is founded, many have constitutions just like everything else that is founded with a small governing documentation to base how that organization can/will be run.

    That church's constitution is then voted upon by deacons or the members and then put into action. Therefore, if the general membership of the church is against carrying a gun in church, then it is banned. If a church were so inclined as to make a statement that the right to carry a gun in their midst was permissible, it would go into the churches constitution, and then would be voted upon and then written out as that churches stand on the issue.

    It can be a double-edged sword.

    There are people who are pro-gun and even carriers themselves who still will not take a gun into church and would vote against the right in their own church.

    The best way to find out how YOUR particular church would go about making a public statement on the matter, you have to first figure out the government of your church. In some churches the pastor has all of the say and what he says, goes. In others, it is based on a vote of the membership. In others, it's based on a vote of the deacons. Still others rely on an outside governing power and must get permission from a "head church" or some kind of regional daises.

    Find out the government of your church and you'll find who can make what kind of proclamations regarding carry in their midst.

  7. #7
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    +1 Lima - as always, well said!

    My church is independent and follows a constitution voted on by the congregation. Any change in the constitution would be voted on by the Elders - majority rule - before it was presented to the congregation for a vote.

    OH prohibits CC in houses of worship except by consent of said leadership. I think in my case, I'd only need my dad's permission (GRANTED - since he's the minister! ). To cover my bases, all I'd need is a majority vote by the Elders to allow CC. This could be done w/o a change in the constitution.

    Trying to add it to the church constitution would, unfortunately, just open up a can of worms.
    It's not about the caliber you carry, it's about how you USE it.

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