I'm sure someone in this forum can give me insight into the regs pertaining to carrying a weapon on the flightline. Assuming a valid CCW for the state your in. I fly out of a small municipal airport and private strips. What I want to know is can I fly into a commercial airport carrying my weapon. What would happen at a FAA ramp check if I was armed, with a valid CCW permit? Do we have any FAA inspectors in this forum? I await your replies with mags on, prop clear, clearance issued.
Just my opinion but i would think that as long as you have a valid CCW from the state that you land in, or have the appropiate recip that you would be OK. You wouldn't be in a security area so there shouldn't be any attempt to search your person. I own a Cessna 152 and have wondered that also as i plan on trying to fly to Las Vegas next year.
The ramp as well as the sterile area are both a NO NO according to Federal law as well as most state laws unless ofcourse you are a LEO with a flying armed document.
Well, most FBOs are privately owned. But most of the airports are owned by a municipality. From the way I read the law here in Georgia, one could carry aboard general aviation aircraft at the pilot's sole descretion. Since I am the pilot I permit carry. I never pass through metal detectors or xray machines, so I don't worry too much. Although I fly out of Chattanooga most times - still the same. I would treat a ramp check in the same regards as I would a traffic stop. I would never volunteer any info. As long as it is concealed - who would ever know. Plus I don't consider the FAA LEOs - they can revoke your pilots license - but they would have to call law enforcement for anything further - that is my opinion. I feel a need to carry - more so at the smaller air strips - who knows when it's going to be your (un)lucky day. We live in a different world now. You are legal to carry in general aviation aircraft. It's your local /state laws that is your issue. Just make sure where you take off and where you land is legal to carry. There have been some instances where TSA attempts to regulate general aviation and firearms - it cannot! We are never in a secured area for commercial aircraft - infact, alarms would probably go off if your aircraft ventured into the secured areas of the ramp. Check out www.aopa.org - the forum section and do a search on firearms. Oh by the way - one of my favorite places to shop - Sporty's - recently posted a no firearms allowed sign at their facility for those flying & driving in. So you know who will be boycotting them - plus writing a letter.
You gotta be kidding me!! SPORTY'S is gun-hostile?! :aargh4: DAMMIT!
I wonder if Aircraft Spruce is the same way. They're one of the alternatives to Sporty's. (So is eBay, but then, they're not gun-friendly either.)
As far as TSA "trying" to regulate aviation and guns, any attempts to do so should be PROSECUTED. As in, the officials in TSA who make attempts to usurp governmental power that does not belong to them should be thrown in jail. They should know clearly what is their purview and what is not. If I were to try to fine someone for speeding, since I'm not a cop, they'd jail me for the attempt, even if my intention was good. It's even worse when someone in government does it. And they try and try and try all the time. They are acting on the premise that they are hoping no one is looking and they can get away with it.
Flyboy has the best answer here. However, I have been to FBO's that have had metal detectors and x-ray machines. Coming off the ramp wouldn't be a problem, but getting to the aircraft could be. Not sure what their firearms policy was.
One thing I'd be afraid of is a multi-state cross country and having an emergency or otherwise needing to divert (weather) and land in a state with no reciprocity with whatever permit(s) a person had. You would not be legal to CCW or possibly even have a handgun at that point. I wonder what would happen. I'd just hide it somewhere VERY special during my, ahem, extended and detailed post flight inspection.
Good question. I wondered this myself and was only now triggered to read the literature for a ruling.
Just to clarify on flyboy's response:
While operating Part 91 you are allowed to carry where permitted. With regards to this specific topic, Part 135 and 121 regulations prevail over Part 91 while oparting under such regulations.
I believe if you are caught, no matter how, armed carrying in an airport flight line boundary, especially under the increased security and sensitivity of aircraft and weapons:
1) You will never carry again (legally)
2) You will pay hefty fines (plus lawyer)
3) You may do jail time
Not worth the chance that I can sneak one by them...not sure what is to be gained by carrying on one's own privately owned aircraft.
I know a guy flying part 135 freight that ended up landing in a farmers field. The big dogs got to the pilot and attacked, before the farmer had even woken up and made it out the door. Thats why he carries a gun now
As per TSA regulations, if you approach the terminal screening area (X-Ray area) with any 'prohibited' item, then you can face legal action. This conversation stems from Part 91 aircraft operations, for which I believe there is no prohibition against carrying.
Strictly as an analogy: if you were a Greyhound bus driver, you would not be able to carry while on the job; you would be able to carry while traveling to and from work in your own car.
Strictly as an analogy: if you were a Greyhound bus driver, you would not be able to carry while on the job; you would be able to carry while traveling to and from work in your own car.
I think your analogy is a little off, but well intended. What the OP refers to would be more analogous to a private charter bus, or limousine that is owned by the driver. The issue here is that the owner/operator of the aircraft is licensed by law to CCW in states X, Y, and Z. If he's traveling in his own aircraft from state X to state Y, and flies over state Z (but no others) on the way there... I don't see why there would be any problem . This view, of course, is probably not shared by our wonderful federal government.
Going on what I've read in case reports from the a local airport police department (they're part of our LE database system), from what I understand it's not that difficult. As far as I have seen from these reports a CCW in a state that it's valid in, the only thing that the LEOs have protested is that it was "private property" that did not allow carry. Each time they let the pilot go but also each time the person was carrying OWB.
At this particular airport it seems that there are no security checkpoints for private aircraft and their only objection was what a regular property owner would have. My belief from reading these reports is that as long as it's unloaded and carried in a container of some sort while you are not on the plane should be fine, once you are in your aircraft it would be pilot's (aka your) discretion.
I tried flying with mace once, but the ball and chain where to heavy for me carry, and the steak I ate when I got hungry. Make the yoke all greasy and slippery too. :wink::rofl::spankme: (Tongue removed from cheek, foot transferred from mouth to floor)
As you pilots who fly under Part 91 know, there are airports and then there are airports.
I am the manager of the Trinidad, Perry Stokes Airport (TAD) and just want to assure you pilots out there that concealed (or open for that matter) carry is fine here.
All of our staff are either hunters or competitive target shooters so if you reveal your carry status, be prepared for an extra 20 minutes delay in order to talk about guns.
As you pilots who fly under Part 91 know, there are airports and then there are airports.
I am the manager of the Trinidad, Perry Stokes Airport (TAD) and just want to assure you pilots out there that concealed (or open for that matter) carry is fine here.
All of our staff are either hunters or competitive target shooters so if you reveal your carry status, be prepared for an extra 20 minutes delay in order to talk about guns.
Planes & guns - it doesn't get any better than this!
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