Another why I carry rant...
This is a discussion on Another why I carry rant... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; While my wife was in the hospital last week with our new baby girl, I realized again why I carry. Most LEO will know this ...
August 17th, 2007 10:34 AM
Another why I carry rant...
While my wife was in the hospital last week with our new baby girl, I realized again why I carry. Most LEO will know this experience but I'm not sure if this is a problem for CCW since you may come in contact with them but not know who they are...
I'm walking down the hospital hallway at about 9pm. I notice a guy in a chef's coat coming towards me. My situational awareness is always up due to my training/job. I make eye contact with him and realize that I have had contact with him in the field and he is a formerly convicted felon. Now this is not the first time this has happened to me but in the confines of a hospital during the innocence of experiencing a newborn I viewed it in a different light.
I did as I usually do in these situations, I realized that he recognized me and I smiled and gave him extended eye contact and a smile. The key to this kind of contact that is widely recognized by bad guys is the blatant chin up nod as I say "what's up". Around here it means I know who you are, you know who I am and I'm just moving on. As an aside, it's funny how the public that I help will never recognize me out of uniform but cons always do. The bad guys are much more observant of everything.
Good to see that he is gainfully employed cooking my meals at the hospital. It's just interesting that as LEO I know people's backgrounds and the general public doesn't.
Training means learning the rules. Experience means learning the exceptions.
August 17th, 2007 10:51 AM
Michigan does not allow CCW in hospitals.I guess they figure you are near help when you get shot.Chuck.
August 17th, 2007 11:11 AM
This is the exact reason why I argued so much in that thread about LEO's having more carry "rights" than the regular guy.
I have had like experiances, it isnt fun.
August 17th, 2007 11:32 AM
My brother-in-law, a police officer, has this happen all the time. We can't go to a restaurant or practically anywhere public (I come from a pretty small town and it's easy to bump into people) without him seeing at least one person that he's arrested for something.
I once got a phone call from a gal I went to high school with and she complained to me that my brother-in-law arrested her and her boyfriend (another kid I went to high school with) for drugs and found drugs in her car.
Most of the people he recognizes are just punk kids who did something stupid like drag racing down main street or getting caught with some pot.
But, every now and then he runs into someone who makes his skin crawl.
He drives my sister crazy because he'll just stop and stare at them with the most venomous gaze a little guy like him can cook up. My sister's tugging on him, getting embarrassed, but he lets everyone know, just by his gaze, that he knows that man and he knows what he did and he's not afraid and he'd take him out again in a heartbeat if he had to. Then he moves on.
My brother-in-law doesn't carry off-duty. I don't know that he can in Wisconsin, and I never asked him if he would if he were able. I'm sure sometimes it would probably be prudent for him to do so if he could.
I agree though, Police Officers deal with the scum of the universe on a regular basis and it's only natural that they would have to run back into that scum from time to time. They should have every means available to protect themselves and their families from retaliation by that scum.
August 17th, 2007 11:39 AM
Ghosts from the past are a part of an LEO's job that that the public rarely sees or appreciates. Congrats on the newborn.
Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776
Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
-Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95
August 17th, 2007 11:56 AM
This is why you treat everyone as a threat until they prove otherwise. I am not saying walking around being paranoid at every person you see, just be alert and aware of your surroundings at all times. My wife thinks I'm crazy because I refuse to sit in a restaraunt with my back to the door. Most folks are walking around like sheep with no awarness to their surroundings at all.
When Seconds Count, The Cops Are Just Minutes Away!!
August 17th, 2007 12:14 PM
i think states that don't allow off duty LEOs to carry is suicide. it's just not right.
What's this button do?
August 17th, 2007 12:23 PM
Its not up to them (states) anymore. Some make it tougher for LEO's to carry by making stupid rules and regs about it.
Originally Posted by downrange
August 17th, 2007 12:58 PM
Six, I will agree with you in context, but I also know a Medicine resident who was taken to her car at gunpoint. She "escaped" when someone she knew saw her in the garage and wondered what was up. The BG shot her in the back of the head with (IIRC) a .25 Raven and ran. She lived, about the only good thing that can be said. Would she have carried, if allowed? Who knows, but not everyone who works in a high-risk occupation has even the same basic rights as a non-uniformed officer, in most states.
Originally Posted by SIXTO
Its not fun when you run into the relative of a gang-banger who you declared DRT, despite the protestations of the family, either.
You are my brother in Citizenship. If all are equal, but some are more equal...breeds bad feeling and experiences, all around.
August 17th, 2007 01:39 PM
August 17th, 2007 02:12 PM
congratulation on the new baby!!
I totally agree with you about safety and hospitals.
I work in many different hospitals as a vendor. My job is working with the pharmacies with medication inventory control machines and some other things. My accounts are small facilities and some do not even have security. They rely on the facility management guys to control things when needed. I am not sure if my job allows me to carry or not but I do since Indiana has no law against it. Also most hospitals I go to are not posted. My direct customer contacts are pro-gun/CC so all is good for me.
The other scary thing is as long as you look like you belong you can walk in and take things without even being questioned. I have walked in to large hospitals and taken computers and walked right out the front door. No one questioned me, granted I was taking them to work on in a different bldg.
I have only been stopped once or twice by hospital staff and asked who I was and what I was doing.
Just because it is a hospital does not make it safe.
Also these pharmacies have locked doors but most of the time they just open the door to ask who I am and what I need. They never use the windows or comm boxes. These ladies would stand no chance against some crack head trying to get in.
August 17th, 2007 02:19 PM
Had a very similar experience just a few weeks ago.
When I was LEO, a real nasty sort of fellow went to the pen with a 25 year/no parole sentence. As the courtroom bailiffs led him out, he was screaming to the whole world that he would kill me if he ever saw me again.
Now, it's 26 years later and I was at our small town's annual festival a few weeks ago when we encountered each other unexpectedly. I rounded the corner of a vendor's booth and we met face to face. I had no doubt who he was and that he recognized me right away. Later on I saw him talking with his brother and pointing in my direction.
I don't carry as a former LEO, I carry under CHL. No matter, I was prepared that day with my Glock 23 hidden out of sight.
Ya never know......
August 17th, 2007 04:36 PM
Used to have an occupation with the state allowing me to see humans at their worst, but did not allow us to carry any form of a weapon. I have had a LEO tell me he wouldn't go where I went without a gun. I had enough of that line of work, and now carry almost everywhere I go. I am dealing with some of the same issues re: history of being a "bad guy" to some people. Not fun, and I wholeheartedly salute LEO's for having to deal with this day to day.
Last edited by 1911NM; August 17th, 2007 at 04:39 PM.
Reason: sentence change for readability
NRA, USPSA SS & Lim-10
Blessed are they who, faced with danger, think only of the front sight. J. Cooper
August 17th, 2007 05:29 PM
Originally Posted by SIXTO
Why? Do you rule out the possibility that "the regular guy" can never encounter a person out in public on whom he called the police and got into legal trouble?
You make it sound as though the only people who can run into someone who has a vendetta are LEOs. That's patently absurd. And even absent a vendetta, anyone can run into someone who just wants to victimize him, anywhere and at any time.
NO reason for LEOs to have "special" or "additional" rights to carry. Any claim they can make about being in greater danger can be nullified logically. We "regular guys" can always be in as much danger, since the danger is random.
August 17th, 2007 05:40 PM
I'll put $.02 in, PJ: in overall context, as I've said before, I agree with Sixto. It is a matter of percentages- LEs will encounter BGs with a pesonal grudge more commonly than the general population. Since their job is enforcement and capture, LE will have a less "passive" relationship with undesirables than Fire/EMS and (generally) Probation and Parole.
Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey
I'm not for limiting LE rights. I would just like to see us on an equally "high" scale. Whereas LE will experience more intense violence, JQ Public experiences more violence, demographic/environment dependant.
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