Thief and LEO encounter

This is a discussion on Thief and LEO encounter within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; About 1 ½ years ago my $2,000 mountain bike was stolen from my neighbor’s carport, let them borrow it. I wrote it off thinking I ...

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Thread: Thief and LEO encounter

  1. #1
    Member Array troyw64's Avatar
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    Thief and LEO encounter

    About 1 ½ years ago my $2,000 mountain bike was stolen from my neighbor’s carport, let them borrow it. I wrote it off thinking I would never see it again. On Friday around 11:00 p.m. My wife decided she wanted to go get a soda at the local 7-11. I had removed my firearm earlier and locked it up for the night (have shotgun handy at home) because I didn’t think we would be going anywhere. Just a quick trip, right?
    We pull up to the store and low and behold there is my mountain bike in front of the store, I knew it was mine because of the type of bike it was and the dents and dings I had put on it. I confronted the man who was riding it and he said he was borrowing it from a friend and it wasn’t his. Had the clerks call the cops, tried to detain him until the cops showed up but he said he wasn’t going down for having stolen property and took off I left my wife at the store and followed him to where he said the owner was. When I got there this dirt bag walks out holding a crowbar and hammer, I’m 6’4” and 255 and we was 150lbs wet, if that, so I wasn’t too worried. I got out and talked to him, he stated that he bought it from a swap meet and we argued for a bit then the cops showed up. They told him to go get the bike at that point I told the LEO I have my CCP (required by Utah law) but wasn’t carrying he looked at my hip and said thanks for letting him know, he was really cool about it. Needless to say I lost the serial number of the bike in a move and the store I bought it from had a computer crash so there is no way for me to prove it’s mine, his word against mine. The BG gets away with one. That was my first encounter with LEO since getting my permit, went will even though I wasn’t carrying. Learned two things; 1. Always carry 2. Keep better care of my records
    Question: had I been carrying would it have been a good Idea or bad Idea to detain the first guy with my property at the store with my firearm drawn? Or how would you have handled it?
    [B“I firmly believe that any mans finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious”[/B]

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array slimjim's Avatar
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    Personally, I would not attempt to detain him at the store with my firearm. As a civilian, I feel the only time I should draw my gun is if I'm in a life-threatening situation. That clearly wasn't the case. I would have followed the guy to see where he was going just like you did, and called the cops. Would try to avoid any encounter until the cops show up. I don't trust the judicial system. Too bad the bad guys got away with one.

    It would have been an interesting situation if you were packing and shot him after he came out with those weapons. Could be interpreted as you are the aggressor, considering you went to his house, etc. Would be watching you on next Saturdays "48 Hours Mystery". Take care.

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    Member Array FLJohn's Avatar
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    Here in Florida you wouldn't have been legal to detain with firearm drawn.(not allowed to use firearm to gain leverage on someone) the other guy with the crow bar maybe but would have been chancy since you looked for trouble in a way.(not that what you did was wrong just not a good idea to draw on him unless you were defenitly in danger) his story might have right as for buying it at a swap meet, BG might do this for the money instead of having stolen property.
    SigP226, SigP232SS, GLock 27, Glock 23, M&P9C, M&P 40C, Tika T3 .308, New England Rifle .17 HMR. DPMS AR-10 .308, Mossberg 500, Bersa .380, Olympic Arms AR15 Pistol, Kimber CDP2 Ultra, Kimber CDP2 compact, S&W 432pd,CX4 storm .40

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Even better, never loan gear you desire to keep to 'friends'.

    I've learned this lesson multiple times and no body treats your stuff as well or as secure as you the guy who paid money for it does.
    As to bicycles I as a rule never allow them out of my direct sight and physical contact even when parked. No leaving them outside or in driveways either.
    Bicycles are way too easy to skate off with and the current 'owner' you confronted was likely telling the truth as that bike has probably changed hands several times over before ending up with him and on loan to his own friend that you ran into.

    Did you atleast get an insurance claim against your own friends home owner insurance toward the loss and it's value?
    If so then there was no real loss to you and if not then the friend himself should have bought you a new bike considering he/she is the one who facilitated it's loss. Or rather that's what I'd expect and would do if I were your friend.

    Oh and even if you were carrying I would have called the cops and let them handle it directly.
    Getting shot/beaten or shooting someone over a bicycle (even a $2K bike) is not worth the trouble or resulting court costs and lawyer fees.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    Member Array Puppy's Avatar
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    Bad idea and illegal idea!

    You are not a LEO. I guarantee you would have been the one in trouble.

    But then I'm not a lawyer, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night

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    Member Array PAPACHUCK's Avatar
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    I believe you did all you could and should do. I would not have drawn or even made mention of my firearm in the senario you described.

    You did good.
    FREEDOM MATTERS!

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    Member Array Benthic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    <snip>
    ...no body treats your stuff as well or as secure as you the guy who paid money for it does.
    <snip>
    I'll second that! Friends often have the best of intentions, but no one treats your stuff like you do. I have a VERY short list of people I'd lend a $2,000 item to.

    Brian

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    Yeah, I vote for bad idea too!

    Your gun comes out of concealment for one and only one reason... threat of severe bodily harm or death is imminent!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
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    Absolutely no draw. You could have forced an issue that was totally unnecessary. Plus you didn't even have proof the property was yours. In Ky I believe it would have been legal on my own property catching him in the act, but I still wouldn't do it.
    Do you have to notify LEO even if you're not carrying? I wouldn't think so.

  11. #10
    Member Array troyw64's Avatar
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    I would not have pulled my firearm if I did have had it not even when I saw they guy with the crowbar but it would have felt nice to have it just in case, I'm with you only to protect me and mine. just a hypothetical.
    [B“I firmly believe that any mans finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious”[/B]

    Vince Lombardi

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    Member Array crankshop1000's Avatar
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    I'd have a hard time leaving the bike with the rider. He may have bought it at a swap meet.I'd have asked him what he paid and offered to reimberse him for his purchase price.If he was not willing to do that,the bike goes in the pickup with me. Let him call the police if he can prove ownership.Anyways, you know where the bike is,when the time is right grab it.In the meantime, find some documentation, if you can find it have the cops get it back for you.Oh yeah, don't forget the gun next time.

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    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crankshop1000 View Post
    I'd have a hard time leaving the bike with the rider. He may have bought it at a swap meet.I'd have asked him what he paid and offered to reimberse him for his purchase price.If he was not willing to do that,the bike goes in the pickup with me. Let him call the police if he can prove ownership.Anyways, you know where the bike is,when the time is right grab it.In the meantime, find some documentation, if you can find it have the cops get it back for you.Oh yeah, don't forget the gun next time.
    Yea, please tell me your joking. Sure officer I was stealing my bike back that got stolen from me 2 years ago. No officer, I don't have any proof of ownership. That will get your license revoked pretty damn quick. I believe in most states burglary of a residence or theft is enough to get your permit revoked.

    First of all, if no police report was filed when the bike was stolen originally, how is anyone supposed to believe you when you tell the police it was stolen, there is no report for them to look at and reference to begin to sort this out. Secondly, you have no current proof that you ever purchased or owned that bike at any time, other than your word. Well, that just don't hold up, when the police are trying to sort things out.

    Lastly, no, you don't pull your gun to detain someone that you think is on your old bike. Bad idea, additionally, I think it is a bad idea to confront the person at their home. What would you have done if he had gone in his home and came out with at shotgun? Would you have still confronted him. Sure you can follow them, to find out where they live, but then again what are you going to do. Refer to first section for your lack of proof of ownership of that item.

    Just because you have a concealed carry license doesn't mean an officer is supposed to take your word over someone elses, especially when neither of you have actual proof.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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    Senior Member Array preachertim's Avatar
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    I think the question you would have asked yourself in the back of the Police Car would have been , Was that guy telling the truth? Maybe and the embarrasment and loss of your right to carry is worth alot more than 2 grand. I would be mad myself though and while I may be able to give good advice find it hard to follow it sometimes.
    Good luck .

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    OK, I read your post, please explain to me where I missed the fact that you were in fear of your life.
    That is the only time you should be drawing your weapon, or defense of a third party that could use "Deadly Force" to defend themselves. If you want to detain people go work in Corrections, they detain people daily. If you had tried to detain me you would be in jail for Attempted Kidnapping.
    As far as following the person, I'll leave it alone, but confronting them at their home? Man, you confront me at my home you had better bring some serious proof. I would have told you once to leave if you were on my property. After that you are going to jail.
    Sorry to be such "Hard Case" but some of the things you did could've landed you in serious trouble. As a firearms carrier you have a responsibility to more than just yourself.

    Biker

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    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by troyw64 View Post
    Learned two things; 1. Always carry 2. Keep better care of my records
    Question: had I been carrying would it have been a good Idea or bad Idea to detain the first guy with my property at the store with my firearm drawn? Or how would you have handled it?
    "Always carry" -- that one goes without saying, although I would not have let my always carrying make a difference in this situation.

    Now then... detain the guy riding your stolen bicycle at gunpoint?! How badly do you want to get to know his friends in jail?

    I don't know why it's even crossing your mind that you would have been justified in drawing a gun on this guy to "detain" him for the cops. And besides, what would have happened when the cops got there? You would have looked like a guy trying to ROB this guy of HIS bike, since you don't have any way to prove it had ever been yours!

    Geez, and we're criticizing gang-bangers for opting to use guns to settle the most minor disputes.

    Always carry, but not for things like this. In fact, if this is the kind of thing you think you should draw a gun for, I would reassess that "always carry" advice. It might be better advice to get further training on the law as it pertains to concealed carry and use of deadly force first.

    Sorry, I think that your thinking on this is a bit off course.

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