I almost drew today
This is a discussion on I almost drew today within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Well you may see another post by me that details where my car crapped out on me this week. So my wife and I spent ...
August 25th, 2007 11:36 PM
I almost drew today
Well you may see another post by me that details where my car crapped out on me this week. So my wife and I spent the day car shopping today. Well we ended up finding a car from an individual we liked and talked the guy into letting me take it to a mechanic to inspect it before we bought it.
Long story short, the only mechanic that could take us today was in a HORRIBLE part of town. So there I am with my wife standing in front of this shop, (he sitting area was locked up????)
There were a lot of vagrants moving around the area, not going anywhere in particular. I notice one guy who looks to be in his late 20s to early 30s keeps looking over at us. Well my wife walks over to as the mechanic something and this guy starts walking toward her in a slightly faster than normal stride. Since I was already on alert I was quick enough to get to my wife, pull her diagonal behind me and by now he is only like 8-10 feet away and still coming. I lift my untucked shirt with my off hand and grab my PF-9 to draw and he is still coming. As I start to draw, his eyes go to my hand on the gun, he freezes and gets this very cofused look on his face like he is just staring off into space. He then turned and very slowly crossed the street and went on down the road. Amazingly, he and my wife were the only ones that saw me go for the gun, another mechanic came out of the bay and watched the guy walk away, looked at me and shrugged, but I'm pretty sure he didn't see my actions. At this point I was ready to leave, I didn't know what he might come back with. Luckily the mechanic was done and we were on our way very shortly.
(By the way, he said the car was fine and we ended up buying it.)
It really freaked my wife out (to be honest, me too). I have no idea what the guy was going to do, but I knew I wasn't letting him come up to her like that!
Just thought I'd share,
August 25th, 2007 11:44 PM
Glad you were paying attention to what was going on around you. Your eyes may have saved you from a real problem.
Glad you found a new car- it is never fun to deal with a car giving up on you.
"The only people I like besides my wife and children are Marines."
- Lt. Col. Oliver North
August 25th, 2007 11:46 PM
Cool under fire. One more reason to carry. Nicely done. Think I'll let my wife read this thread.
August 25th, 2007 11:52 PM
Almost drawing is scary, Not at that point but after. I was about the same point once with my P3AT and it had me pretty shaken. It made me decide on a bigger gun for EDC
"The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose."
-James Earl Jones
August 25th, 2007 11:55 PM
Nice job. Might I suggest for future action , ordering the subject to stop, loudly several times. It may work, if not he was warned. Finally , make sure you have justification to draw. If he is about the same size you may have legal complications.
I have no doubt he was up to no good. Glad you and yours are safe.
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
August 25th, 2007 11:57 PM
handled it well, congrats
War is not the ugliest of things. Worse is the decayed state of moral feeling which thinks nothing is worth a war. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which he cares for more than his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free. -J.S. Mill
August 26th, 2007 01:16 AM
Nicely done. Better safe than sorry.
August 26th, 2007 02:23 AM
August 26th, 2007 02:28 AM
Sure glad all is well!
I can see being ready, but I don't believe you had justification to draw. I realize I wasn't there and I'm not saying I wouldn't do the same thing either, just thinking about the legalities.
ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!
"A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
August 26th, 2007 02:48 AM
OK, I'm missing something here.
You admit to "almost drawing a weapon" on someone with no implied or perceived threat? I'm not saying you should've done nothing, but this was not the time for a gun. There's an old saying about, "If all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail."
What if he was coming up to your wife to ask the time? What were his intentions, do you know? I could have a field day with this one, and I'm not a lawyer and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night.
Way to go on the "situational awareness" but I think you need to learn some other tactics before going to the gun.
If you think I'm being hard on you wait until you are interviewed by some police detectives or cross examined by an oppossing lawyer. What can you say to justify your actions to twelve "reasonable" people? His story will be something like, "I was just walking up to the nice lady to ask for some spare change and this dude pulled a gun on me." Guess what, you're lucky he didn't call the police. In many jurisdictions you could've and would've been arrested for Disorderly Conduct, Brandishing and even threatening the individual with a firearm. I'm not saying you may not beat one or two charges in court, maybe you will. Why would you even want to risk that?
I suggest you spend some time reading "in The Gravest Extreme", by Massad Ayoob.
OK, that's my $0.02 on the matter.
August 26th, 2007 03:43 AM
I would have 'said' something to warn the potential threat of my dislike of his 'approach'...but you're OK...that's good.
I have been in a situation in a parking lot where someone was approaching for money or info...I gave a warning to stay away from me...(I didn't exactly say it like that...). I'm sure that he thought I was very unfriendly! (fine with me).
The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
August 26th, 2007 05:55 AM
I think you handled the situation very well.
BikerRN how would you have handled the situation?
August 26th, 2007 09:25 AM
Similar situation, vastly different in an important way.
Last spring, a street vagrant eyeballed my wife and I, then started approaching directly. I remember holding my hand up to stop, like a traffic cop and telling him to stop/back away, not too sure now, then I went thru a similar drill; he then diverted his approach and left - all the while bad-mouthing me.
The BIG difference, I was in Chicago and my Glock was in Bama. Still, the alertness and movements worked in this case. All I had was awareness and a knife.
Edited for response to Biker: you are correct, but I didn't have time or forethought, all I had was testosterone and a half-second to react.
Last edited by Wrascal; August 26th, 2007 at 09:40 AM.
Reason: Add response to BikerRN after re-reading postings
August 26th, 2007 09:38 AM
I don't know how it works across the US, but can I assume that only LEO can draw and present a handgun as constructive authority?
A handgun must only be drawn when a threat escalates to the level that can be articulated well, which usually means an actual visual threat of a weapon. Remember the escalation of force in all of your encounters. You have a responsibility to meet a threat with the appropriate level of force. This encounter may have been better served with verbal commands. Non compliance could be followed up with OC or hands on. My Golden Rule on the street is that if I have to use force on you, you will be arrested, so I need to be able to justify the arrest and the force.
The one problem that I have with CCW is that many carry a gun, yet have no empty hand skill sets. This is paramount to defend yourself and the gun in a close quarter confrontation. It is dangerous and a poor tactical decision to go to the gun too early and then have to deescalate. The way you described this encounter - I would have used verbal commands while moving to intercept and get hands on the subject. Once I go hands on and he fights or resists me I would then be justified to go to the gun.
I teach all of my Officers that I can train you, but I can't be in your head when it goes down. If you can reasonably articulate clearly without any doubt why you used the force that you did then you should be fine.
Training means learning the rules. Experience means learning the exceptions.
August 26th, 2007 10:51 AM
fishmaycraft--- Glad every ones OK. I read your post last night and was having a hard time following it, but after a few hours of sleep I found the missing "k" so it makes better sense now. You found yourself in an uncomfortable situation, and went with what you know. Was it right? I would bet you are also second guessing your actions.
As stated in your post "alot of vagrants" this would lead me to believe they are part of the landscape. We can not know what his intentions were, heck he probably didn't even know them himself. Another option may have been moving to the mechanics tool box, and getting your hand wrapped around a 1" box end wrench or some other sizable tool if you thought it might be needed.
Some here talk about getting training in hand to hand tactics, but for me, I really don't want anything to do with that. If the BG would hit me first and knock my glasses off, well at that point I can't see. Then if I had to draw, I would be at a real disadvantage to see whats in the background. LEO's may do hand to hand on a regular basis, and they also carry a ugly stick to hit with, we don't have or carry them.
Best thing you can do here is first thank God that you did not fire, second is learn from it. One thought-- you knew going in it was a bad area, if you carry should we avoid bad situations??? easy for me to question, and I most likely would have went also because of the circumstances.
How do you like the PF-9? I have one ordered, but am afraid I may die of old age before I ever see it.
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