Need some help in explaining things
This is a discussion on Need some help in explaining things within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Just to let everyone know that I thank you for your advice and I am glad that Betty and I consider everyone here friends that ...
June 4th, 2005 12:25 PM
Just to let everyone know that I thank you for your advice and I am glad that Betty and I consider everyone here friends that we can turn to for advice. I am doing my best to understand and Betty has definitely opened my eyes. I believe that I do understand where everyone is coming from, it's just that I am not used to being around guns as much so just give me some time and I'm sure I will see things more clearly.
June 4th, 2005 12:25 PM
June 4th, 2005 12:35 PM
You will be assimilated.
"Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa
June 4th, 2005 12:49 PM
the unanswered question
Why miss out on things in your life you can enjoy just so you can carry?
Each individual must answer that question for herself or himself, and draw his or her own line between acceptable risks and unacceptable risks.
Although I like to think my decisions are based entirely on rational thought, there are some components of my decision-maker that are rational and others that are emotional. Logic can change one's rational thoughts, but it can't change one's feelings.
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" Patrick Henry (ironically a slave owner), 1775 Mar 23.
June 4th, 2005 12:50 PM
I have a son and daughter-in-law that feel nothing will ever happen to them, you don't look for problems its all negative talk. They will not consider even any form of protection. So I do understand people of any size or gender who refuse to look at a gun let alone get one and use it. There are people out there hard headed enough to feel the world just goes on and nothing will go wrong.
As you slide down the banister of life,
May the splinters never point the wrong way.
NRA Life Member
June 4th, 2005 01:37 PM
It's also about respect...
I am fairly new to this board, but I do have some sense of the 'whys and whatfors' of concealed carry. I've been carrying weapons all of my life, sometimes legal, sometimes not. The reason that I carried, regardless of the law is manifold in its cause. Not the least reason is because I have learned from harsh experience that beneath the veneer of civilization, the world is a brutal and violent place. Most of this is contained, by circumstance and design, to places where the effects of this brutality and violence are usually experienced by those who dwell in this environment, either because of a lack of resources to leave or, frighteningly, because that environment is where they thrive.
Like you, I am a large man. I have little to fear from one or even two miscreants. However, I am married, this doubles my area of concern. I am also the father of two of the most wonderful boys in the world. Now my area of concern has expanded exponentially. I cannot be everywhere at once thus, I insist that my wife carry, not just for her protection, but for the protection of my children as well. She grew up in a relatively safe and caring environment, so she, like you has a hard time seeing why I require her to carry a heavy, cumbersome object like a handgun. She also respects me, so she complies. Fortunately, she has yet to have to fend off any of the increasing number of undesirables that are in our town. She has told me that there were several instances when she was glad that she had a gun available.
There is also the issue of the rising number of incidents involving groups of thugs violating lone individuals or couples. Being a large man is only a deterrent to the rational or the small statured. Numbers increase bravery, as do drugs. A knife in the hand of a criminal during a crime virtually guarantees that someone is going to be hurt or killed eventually. I know from personal experience that a gun trumps a knife, and decreases the disparity between a lone individual and a gang of thugs most effectively.
But there is a larger, more abstract reason to avoid places like Illinois; they do not respect your humanity. The Supreme Court has already ruled that the police are under no obligation to protect the individual, so logic dictates that the individual must take measures to protect him or herself. A government that was run by intelligent, sensible people would take measures to enable the individual to provide for personal protection. However, the opposite seems true. Instead of easing the path to self protection, the re are places where the police are under no obligation to protect you and laws to prevent you from protecting yourself. The irrefutable facts make it obvious that firearms in the hands of private citizens lower the rate of violent crime. The only exhaustive study on the subject, done by John Lott, provides those in government with all of the information needed to come to this conclusion. Studies to the contrary are either poorly executed or outright lies. EVERYONE who has looked seriously into the matter has come to the same conclusion; an armed citizen is the best deterrent to crime.
Yet, some places ignore the facts and continue with their dogmatic drive towards victim disarmament. From their actions, I can only come to one conclusion; they don't want citizens, they want subjects. They want the average individual to be completely dependent on their whim, and to be an unquestioning member of the herd. If a few of us are killed or maimed by the criminal element, it's a small price for the advantage of control. It sounds trite, but it rings true; an armed person is a citizen, an unarmed citizen is a subject.
Since I cannot change their minds, and since breaking their laws would force me to run the risk of losing my family, I do what I can. I deprive them of my commerce, my finances, and my presence in their sorry state. To venture into their realm is not living life to the fullest, it is submitting to the whim of a tyrant. I, for one, cannot enjoy myself when the oppressive weight of government prevents me from taking measures to insure the safety of myself and my family.
June 4th, 2005 01:43 PM
This thread is proving a very valuable one I think - and not just for the prime players. These questions are common - most notably perhaps between partners and are well worth discussion.
I have reached the grand old age of 60 - so far without many really scary episodes - one or two I had in UK could well have been less so had I been armed. I always had a knife and occasionally carried but that was very risky. I was between a rock and a hard place. I have had two minor situations here the last five years - concerning but not scary - and made less so because I did have one extra option - tho not needed at all - I was actually more at ease in a sense.
What always tends to keep me a bit more ''sharp'' is the simple knowledge that bad guys have a way different mind set - they are NOT like us and many will not want to take prisoners, having as they do a very low opinion of the lives of others. These are the people who when being pleeded with ''please don't shoot'' - probably will!! They are not either by default always easy to spot - the best ones can look real normal!
Preacherman on THR was a prison chaplain until recent health problems and I found out a lot from him about the mindset of the average criminal - it is NOT pleasant tho should be known by all.
Thing is - carry and situational awareness does not (IMO) remove one's enjoyment of life, at all. Once the extra awareness is developed (not that difficult) - in fact it could be said to be a ''freeing'' condition ... no need at all to spend every waking hour worrying - just be cognissant of what goes on and get on with enjoying life - being however better prepared against that chance situation, where evil appears from nowhere.
I can think of a thousand different situations that something bad might happen to me in life but why walk around worrying about things that "might" happen rather than walk around life enjoying it to the fullest.
Rambling again - sorry!
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
June 4th, 2005 02:44 PM
My weapon(CCW) and myself are a team. We belong together. I do not want or feel the need to go anywhere that my"team" is not wanted. To a state,a country,a retail establishment,or a work place. When i retired I turned down two different jobs that did not allow its employee's to CCW. One of the jobs was probably the best job that I could hope for,with VERY good pay. The employer would not budge on this and neither would I. It's obvious that he did not want my"team" either. It finally worked out for the best.(blessing in disguise) Concealed carry is a way of life. I believe this and I teach my students this.When you become a CCWer and you get good solid training to go with it your life,and your outlook on life, changes. My students that I talk to years after I'm done with them have changed. You can see it as soon as you walk up to them. I always ask them several questions that are designed to make ME feel good and it almost always does. One of the questions is "Do you have a conceiled weapon on you now?" 90% of them say"Sorry,thats none of your buisness." This is the response that I taught them to give. I don't really care if they do or not. I just want to see if they remember one of my teachings. ---- Do I feel that I'm missing having fun cuz I have a CCW and always carry?? ABSOLUTELY NOT !! After you get your CCW and some(and hopefully alot) of training to go with it,I feel that you will feel this way also. Don't know 'bout you but----- if I wanted to go somewhere so bad as to leave my CCW at home and something happened,especially to my wife, I could never forgive myself. -------- This IMHO. Oh,remember also, size don't mean squat(I'm 6'1" and weigh 240'ish)when faceing a knife,several street fighters,and especially a gun.-----
June 4th, 2005 03:21 PM
I tried to post this earlier, but the site wasn't responding. So, here we go:
I carry a fire extinguisher in my truck. Doesn't mean I'm looking for a fire, just being prepared. I wouldn't visit somewhere if private citizens weren't allowed to use fire extinguishers. Would you?
What if some states required that you not wear your seat belt while visiting?
Would you go there, or find a different destination?
Living somewhere that allows the citizenry to be armed, you benefit from those who choose to do so. I''ve lived my entire 29 years(save the last 6 months) in the gods-forsaken People's Republik Of Kaliforniastan. In the Bay Area, the criminals know that nobody is armed. They are far more aggressive than other parts of the state. Moving to Oregon was like coming to another planet. The meth heads here are polite and respectful. They don't ask for change, they don't walk down the street cursing, and they don't try to stare down women in the grocery store. It's because they are worried about being shot.
Compare this to England, with their strict gun control laws. They now have large groups of teens(up to 20 strong,IIRC) who will run up to strangers, and surround them. They then push, slap, and otherwise abuse the person while taking pictures with their cellular phones. The pictures are traded like baseball cards. This happens because they know there are no consequences to their actions. The populace is disarmed.
I'm a big guy. When I was in shape, I was 295, and ran 3 miles a day. I've studied Muay Thai and Gracie style Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. I've been a bouncer in some of the roughest clubs in the Bay Area. I've thrown members of the Oakland Raiders out of said clubs on their asses. I'm now taking Krav Maga.
I still won't visit England or Scotland, because I know I'm not up to fighting 20 guys at once. Not without a weapon. I've been lucky and careful in my 29 years. Now I have a family, and I won't put them at risk. Look at Betty, and imagine the hurt she would feel if you were killed by some dime store thug with a cell phone while visiting someplace. Imagine that look in her eyes every day for the rest of her life.
There are other ways to live life to the fullest than putting yourself in bad situations. I've already told my family and friends in Ca that I won't be back for funerals or marriages. It will take something important to make me step foot in that pit again.
Russian roulette's exicting, I'm sure. I bet you value your life in a whole new way after you hear that "click". But I'm not gonna try it.
"Water can flow, or it can crash. Be like water, my friend."-Bruce Lee
"Luck, often enough, will save a man if his courage does hold."
June 4th, 2005 07:49 PM
I am doing my best to understand everyones thoughts here but I still hate to walk around worrying about the "what if's." I know that if we were in an area that did not allow you to carry and something bad happened to Betty I would never forgive myself, but on the other hand I still want to enjoy going to different places. I have had the chance to visit places like Paris, Wales, Scotland, London, Ireland, Mexico, Japan and Jamaica so I suppose that I am blind to thinking that something bad might happen. I do understand everyones viewpoints but I also would like to share my desire to travel to different parts of the world with Betty.
June 4th, 2005 11:48 PM
It's not about just so I can carry - it's about having the ability to take care of myself and my friends and family without waiting the 6-15 minutes for help to arrive at best after an emergency has already begun.
Originally Posted by mrshonts
I grew up in Chicago. Response time was horrific - 2-4 hours was not uncommon from 911 even if you screamed you were being killed. The criminal element knew this, and I wasn't a particularly nice juvenile myself growing up.
I've mellowed out and grown up a lot since those days, but I can recognize my own or folks I would have hung out with 20 years ago. They're not everywhere, but you can encounter them anywhere.
For me, the gun is about security and self-determination: no matter how bad things get around me, no matter how remote or stupid, at least I have the opportunity to try to use the best tools available to me to escape, evade, or solve a situation that presents itself.
I grew up with a horrible choice: commit a felony every time you walked out the door, or be a victim.
I chose the former and was discreet about it, but like someone who comes forward about a rape years later, I'll echo a basic sentiment: never again.
I will not put myself in the hands of law enforcement who has no obligation to defend me or mine.
I will not put myself in the hands of my fellow citizens when I have hands of my own to defend myself.
I will not be disarmed by hook, crook, or passage of unjust laws.
That said, I don't relish time in jail. Three days in Cook County jail taught me that much. Thus, I'm faced with a choice: miss out on some places that I might otherwise enjoy, or risk serious repercussions.
No matter how much I may like Wrigley Field, it's not worth the potential felony to go to a game there nor to walk those streets alone and unarmed.
Driver carries less than $45 worth of remorse.
June 5th, 2005 12:51 AM
I'm gonna get slapped.
Betty - would you leave your monitor for a moment please? Thank You.
Jamacia, they have nude beaches, something very sexy about the ladies wearing a knife on a laynard around the neck, or about the hips.
*ahem* I "had" to ask a number of these ladies questions. Some where Jamacian ( hey I took the wooden canoe ride dealie) some were tourists. Germany, Italy, The Bronx, Spain, Spain, Spain, Spain,, TX, TX ,TX ( I kept getting lost and needing directions).
" Better to have it - and not need it mon". - My Jamacian canoe guide.
" Well hell kinda hard to bring a Combat Commander into this country, much less conceal the durn thing on a nude beach". - 5' 10" blue eyed blond Texas gal.
Betty can come back now...
June 5th, 2005 01:24 AM
A few thoughts...
We never know from one minute to the next what the world is going to throw our way. So we protect ourselves and family as best we know how by taking a responsible and prudent look at which path we walk. If this means we visit a few less places in life, then so be it.
June 5th, 2005 01:24 AM
Since nobody really wants to offer relationship advice, I will toss my $.02 in.
Since I hold the same views as Betty, pardon me if this comes across a little biased. I really don't mean it that way. Instead take it in the friendly spirit in which it is offered. I may be a spring chicken to some of you, but in the few decades I have walked this ball of rock, I have had more than my share of broken hearts and seen many more. (As I am sure have many of you)
By the time my wife and I got married, I had figured out that there were a few things I cannot and will not compromise on. Some are moral issues, others are personal. We talked about them. She had a few things she was dead set on as well. (Fortunately we agreed on nearly 100% of these. Others we were able to work out.) For instance I am a homebody and I don't drink alcohol nor would I marry anyone who did. (My dad was an alcoholic, and I want no part of the stuff in or around my family. Relax I don't have a problem with others who do, but I canít watch another loved one destroyed like my father was)
I warned her that I am a chronic gear head and will always have a bunch of old cars to tinker with. She will get me away from home two weeks total out of the year. (One week willingly, the other kicking, screaming) After that, she can go anywhere she wants, but unless someone is dead or dying I stay home.
She had to decide whether she could live with a man like me. Fortunately for me, she is.
MrShonts, if Betty has drawn a line in the sand, you have to make up your own mind whether or not you can live with it or not, and or whether you value her enough to accept it. Betty the same goes for you. If you two can't come to terms without compromising something vitally important to you, then you both need to take a step back and take a second look.
I am not trying to make this a black and white issue. Heaven knows that relationahips rarely are. Speaking from experience, and repeated observation, you will never be satisfied in a relationship which compromises your morals, or that which is important to you.
My advice to both of you is, take your time. Don't be in any hurry. Take the all the time you need. Your day will come one way or another. In the end, you will never regret waiting.
June 5th, 2005 08:21 AM
ROFL!! I especially like the part about vegetables.
Originally Posted by The Tourist
June 5th, 2005 09:37 AM
Police Protection ??? Ask any LEO>>>> How many felony assaults they have stopped in progress?? How many rapes? How many armed robberies? How many home invasions? How many muggings? How many cases of severe road rage that turned into an assault? Ask this to a LEO that has 20 or so years on the force. They come after the fact to make a report. Some will tell you "we can't be every where at once" Some will tell you "we can't protect everybody". Some will tell you(as I heard on TV the other nite) "don't try to stop these things yourself,let the police handle it,it's their job." This is what I say."Get the hell out of my way.Stay the hell outta my house-and let me protect myself. You will be the first to get a call when I'm through." I have a ******* lot more training than you,I'm a ******* lot better shot than you. I have a ******* alot better mindset than you. And I care a ******* lot more about me and my families wellbeing than you do." These are the facts. This is not bragging. I truly believe that most all of us here feel somewhat this way. (Although I'm not speaking for anybody except myself here.) I also will not appologize to anyone for these statements.I am simlpy stateing the facts. The LEO community has their job to do and I have mine. Lets all just be realistic about something as important as our own safety and the safety of our loved ones.---- This with respect to my fellow CCWers.
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