Need some help in explaining things - Page 5

Need some help in explaining things

This is a discussion on Need some help in explaining things within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Time is fine, but right now I'm worried about you having too much fun with that dancing banana....

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Thread: Need some help in explaining things

  1. #61
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    Time is fine, but right now I'm worried about you having too much fun with that dancing banana.
    "Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa


  2. #62
    Member Array mrshonts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betty
    Time is fine, but right now I'm worried about you having too much fun with that dancing banana.

  3. #63
    Member Array mrshonts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betty
    Time is fine, but right now I'm worried about you having too much fun with that dancing banana.



    I HAVE AN ARMY NOW.....HA HA HA

  4. #64
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    Chris and I ...if we ever met safety is #1 . #2 is his wife is gonna know for sure we are both nuts.
    Hey dude - not ''if'' ... hopefully ''when'' - if fate is kind to us. As for Bonnie knowing about nuts - hey, she knows I am nuts - all she has to do is meet you to check that it applies to you too LOL. Mind you - I do call her ''goofy! Safety tho - yep - numero uno always.

    Damn! All these bananas - bet they are loaded - and hey - watch where you tread, - slippery lil' fellas they are.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  5. #65
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    I made Bananna Nut Muffins tonight.

    I'm not nuts...the subliminal message of mrshonts did not have any affect on me...nope...nosiree...not me...define "denial" if you please.

    Yes I practiced safety. MY muffins are one BIG muffin made in a 6" cast iron skillet. Beats the heck out of 1) finding the muffin pan, 2) separating the dad-gum baking cups.

    Cast iron, flip that puppy onto a paper plate. Paper towel the skillet clean and done. Eat with fingers the BIG muffin, toss paper plate. I like simple.

    1- All cast iron is hot
    2- Keep your fingers off the durn handle, use the neat dealie that slips over handle or use the towel...somewhere I have pot holders
    3- Know your target ,and what behind it . I cheat I use a convection oven, less likely to have my hand hit the inside of big oven and burn myself.
    4- Do not let your cast iron cover anything you are not willing to destroy. Meaning, you drop that sucker you will hurt your foot, dent the floor.

    There you have it - 4 rules of cast iron safety. Now ya know.

    Chris...Bonnie is in for a treat for sure! She ain't ever met anyone like me...
    Use Enough Gun

  6. #66
    Former Member Array The Tourist's Avatar
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    I like guns, so that part of this debate has a lot of traction for me. But then, you American folks have access to the greatest motorcycle ever built and ignore that aspect of living.

    I love my wife, as I have for over thirty years. She used to have really long blonde hair, she weighed about 120 pounds and she wore high heels everywhere. Short skirts were 'in' back then, as well.

    She's now 51, still a knock-out (people cannot believe that she's even in her 40's), but her hair is now at a long, but realistic length, and she wears comfortable shoes.

    The vixen I competed for is gone, and a woman of her own mind with dissimilar tastes and convictions has taken her place. Whatever shall I do, toss her out?

    I don't like ultimatums with people. Oh, I've heard myself grumble, "That bike had better run decent by 5:00PM or I'm reporting this to your fleet mananger!" However, that's for a soulless hunk of metal. People have a whole bunch of quirks and twitches that defy refinement.

    Betty, you are a talented professional who has proven herself in SWAT and as a forum moderator. You appear very attractive in your posted pictures.

    Let's suppose, for the sake of debate, you had a time machine and could go back to 1971 when I was at my prime. Besides my long, chestnut hair and blue eyes, I could discuss most topics you might find interesting; and as for safety, I assure you that I was never going to go home a loser.

    We'd have a glass of wine, an interesting evening. And then about 11:00PM, I'd get up, thank you for the lively conversation, and kick-start my '71 Super Glide, only to disappear into time and space as the man you know today.

    You bump into a bike chick of that era, and you ask her why a young virile biker didn't make a pass, even a clumsy drunken one with no shot at any kind of success. A big blonde by the name of Collette would smile, hand you another tap beer and say something like, "Good heavens, girl, that was Chico, our resident joker and full time womanizer. You are short and dark."

    Imagine that. Because of a few minor attributes, you have just been totally rejected as a person, even a person of desire.

    Now, I do not know Mrshonts, only in his professional capacity. Even with my bizarre association with "tickling the dragon" I respect and need people of this calibre, no pun intended. And I know them to be long-suffering and empathetic of my slice of the world.

    You mention a "line in the sand." And, to be sure, there are facets to people I find difficult to respesct. Among those would be repeat druggies, lackadasical parents, people with no spiritual bent, paracord salesmen, perpetual welfare mothers, and surprisingly, liars.

    What little I know of Mrshonts is all positive--all positive. I don't think my wife even fired a weapon until a decade had passed in our relationship. I knew that when the dust settled, I was lost without her. I would be lost now.

    You know we always say, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." This is a partially humorous epithet telling our detractors that there is more to our sport than just dangerous machinery. There is a mind. There is a person of quality. There is someone who is a positive addition to society.

    My cognitive guy was a soldier. His military decorations are displayed in his office. He also has a tri-folded flag, so I know that this dedication has cost him at least one close personal association.

    He gave up pulling triggers to save people like me. In some odd way, he saved more of the world by laying a gun down.

  7. #67
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    Imagine that. Because of a few minor attributes, you have just been totally rejected as a person, even a person of desire.
    Tourist,
    Rambling on about your past & relationships or the cosmetic changes we undergo as we age as an attempt to prove that my line in the sand is wrong is not only offensive, but a bad comparison and implying that I am being superficial.

    You're missing the point. First off, you'll have to quit projecting your own life like you're trying to vindicate yourself. This thread ain't about you.

    We're all going to get old. I'll get wrinkly, my hair will grey and I'll probably gain a few pounds. So will mrshonts. So what. That's just part of the package. Mrshonts partied off in college. I don't drink. Have I held that against him? No. We have other things we don't have in common. So what. That's not the point here.

    Don't you dare try to insinuate that I'm holding tiny little things against mrshonts, because what I am discussing here in this thread is not a minor attribute. Mrshonts brought this topic up to me as a serious topic, because it was apparently going to get in the way later on. And if there's an issue, we want it resolved.

    If you consider personal safety a minor attribute, what in the world are you doing on this forum?

    This isn't about mrshonts' willingness to carry a gun himself. He can carry or not carry, that is his choice. This has to do with mrshonts asking that I leave my weapon at home and vacation to places to where I cannot go armed. Someone demanding that I disarm all for the sake of funsies I will take issue with. I have offered my compromise: vacation in a just-as-nice location where I can carry. Twenty-eight states honor the TN carry permit. That's a lot of options.
    Last edited by Betty; June 7th, 2005 at 12:08 PM. Reason: added punctuation
    "Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa

  8. #68
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Trying to insert a bit of "distance" here, and stay relevant On our last trip to Cancun (our 3rd), as we were going through Mex Migra, the couple behind us only had birth certificates. The guy behind the counter started, " How much you pay to come to Mexico? Ahhh, thas' not much to you! You go, come back tomorrow..." The husband, foolishly, said, " Not at that price......" I heard the full, much longer, "negotiation", as we were picking our bags up and making sure the kids hadn't set anything down.

    Fast forward, my wife says she'd love to live in Mexico, even "if it was a shack on the beach". Her response to my blistering tirade is, "They're happy down there! They live in a beautiful place....." Well, like Tourist, what can you say; you accomodate. Realization can be slow, and sometimes painful. My wife will never understand that I don't "have fun" in a place where I can't carry something (pre-9/11, my Spyderco Enduras went to Mexico with us.) I definitely understand what Betty has to say, but I qualify that with admitting to the compromises I've made.

    Is "funsies" worth it? I certainly don't think it would be worth my life. But. My wife occassionally looks at the world the way I do, and finds it eminently depressing. She came out of two bad marriages, etc., etc., and now, I can give her freedom to enjoy things that neither of us, alone, would have ever seen or done. You don't live forever, and if daily life has been a very real risk for several years, maybe the 70/30 chance of an "incident" doesn't seem so bad. Seeing her on the beach was worth it to me. Could we walk out of Mexico, if the Macheteros came north? Probably not, but I 'd give it a try......

  9. #69
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betty
    ...I believe (and hope) the mindset will start kicking in when he does have his carry permit. You start seeing things from a whole new perspective when you start exercising your right to self-defense.
    If he's getting the carry permit for himself, for his own reasons, I think you're probably right. Your perspective does change, and the way you filter the world changes, too. If, on the other hand, he is getting his CCW for you, then don't expect a change, because he's getting it for the wrong reasons (I think this is a possibility because mrshonts has said he still finds guns scary). If that is the case, maybe it will grow on him, and he will find his own reasons for carrying.
    - Tom
    You have the power to donate life.

  10. #70
    Former Member Array The Tourist's Avatar
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    Taken as a whole, as in any person, this is a minor attribute.

    There are lots of upwardly mobile houses in my block, perhaps a third over 300K. They are the homes of professional people who also have a need for safety and security. They are not pistoleros, nor do they shun their families. They solve their needs with secure doors and windows, neighborhood watch programs, alarms, and safe rooms. My guess is that half of America solves safety this way. Blue states.

    Also in my neighborhood are Packer fans and gun guys. They also have motion sensor lights, and the rest. But we have also spoken about "the gun on the night stand."

    My friends are an eclectic mix. They overlook my bike, I overlook their lawn gnomes. My church is probably the best sampling of America, and we have a span from hunters to mission workers. That's just the way it is.

    I make jokes about my "Go Away" welcome mat, but I'm a people watcher. There are times I need the solace of The National Grasslands and there are times I need a crowd over to play cards. I don't hand out questionaires to ascertain a person's life direction. If I'm projecting any response onto my association, it's that differences and their importance erode over time. We're all bozos on this bus.

    It's a valuable thing, really. Your minor attributes get overlooked in time, as well. And yes, I did willfully reject many fine young women because of their hair length and style of dress.

    You have always said that as a person gets to know you they sometimes have an adverse reaction to all of the hardware you carry. Minor problem. In twenty years you will have a wider spectrum of dear friends, and the hoopla over your personal habits will wash away almost copmpletely.

  11. #71
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    i must not have eaten my wheaties today. tourist, i can't quite decipher what your point is. are you saying that betty should just be happy she has someone interested in her and she should make sacrifices to maintain that interest? what does your taste in women have to do with this? what role does your neighbors have either? or your church?

    i'm so lost.....

  12. #72
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    I guess that's where we'll differ Tourist. What's minor attributes to you in keeping or losing friends and aquaintances is different than me discussing an issue with a potential lifetime mate.

    A potential lifetime mate, I will add, who would be the father of my children.

    A potential lifetime mate, I will add, who will be responsible as a father for protecting those children, and will make decisions in dealing with their safety.

    If this potential lifetime mate cannot make wise decisions pertaining to the safety of his children and mate, as in continuing to insist that we make non-essential travels to places where I cannot legally carry, and asks that I go unarmed even if I can legally carry, while he does not even have sufficent means of defending his own family, while he has acknowledged and dismissed the fact that there are equally good places we can go where I can carry (my father quote,"at least somebody is the protector"), then there will be some serious problems.

    So in other words, only I can determine what is a minor attribute to my situation or not. You're still trying to project what's good for you onto everybody else, and the comparison is weak at best.

    And in case you missed it, mrshonts already agreed to the compromise. We found our middle ground. Period.

    Tom 357,
    He is getting the permit for himself - he expressed that shortly after I met him. With his job description and frequent local travel for his job, he figured it would be a good idea. If he is getting it for my sake, than that means he is not entirely able and willing to use it, and that would make him dangerous.
    "Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa

  13. #73
    Member Array mrshonts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom357
    If he's getting the carry permit for himself, for his own reasons, I think you're probably right. Your perspective does change, and the way you filter the world changes, too. If, on the other hand, he is getting his CCW for you, then don't expect a change, because he's getting it for the wrong reasons (I think this is a possibility because mrshonts has said he still finds guns scary). If that is the case, maybe it will grow on him, and he will find his own reasons for carrying.

    I should have clarified my position more clearly when I stated that I find guns scary. I am scared of when I am carrying the possibility of it going off if I were to trip and fall or if someone sees me carrying and they grab for it (although it is slim to none in happening). I will just always have that thought in the back of my mind until I get comfortable with carrying. I am comfortable in firing and handling guns but am going to have to get used to the idea of carrying all the time. I will admit that Betty has played a part in me deciding that I should carry since I am finding it important to protect myself in this crazy world.
    Some of the reasons as to why I have not carried in the past is simply because I have taken my size for granted thinking that no one would harm me. Plus the cost of many of the guns that I would like to carry is far too much for me to afford at this time since my line of work does not pay very well, but Betty is giving me a good deal on a gun she has that I can purchase from her.

  14. #74
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    I think it will take time. It typically works one of these ways. Go shooting. Shooting isn't bad I'll go again. Go again. Shooting is fun, I'll buy a gun. Buy a gun. The personal protection aspect creeps in there somewhere. You mean I can carry a gun to protect myself. Ok, I'll get a permit. Get permit. Still don't carry much. Start paying attention to crime and what's going on. Start carrying more. Eventually don't want to be without a carry gun.

    The other path is. Become victim of violent crime and survive. Realize that the police will show up to take statements from survivors, tag and bag the dead, do paperwork and ultimately try to catch the bad guy. Decide that you need to protect yourself. Take a class, buy a gun, get the permit and carry. Most of these folks carry all the time from the get go.

    These are the two major paths I see people on in my classes. There are other paths, but these two represent the majority of the people I see in class. My hope is that most people take the first path, however I have a lot of women who have been stalked and assaulted and a few men. One man was so badly injured in a knife attack he had little use of his left hand. So we changed the course of fire to accomodate him.

    At any rate, once Mr. Shonts gets to carrying and doing it regularly I think he will find that he won't like going to places where he cannot.

    Having said that my choice in employement right now pretty much guarantees I cannot carry. However, I like what I am doing and it is important. So I carry improvised weapons that I know how to use and try to limit my risk as much as possible.

    -Scott-

  15. #75
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    Betty & MrShonts, your issue and this thread has struck a chord with me.

    First a little background. I'm a white guy, 45 years of age, 5'11", 185 lbs. I grew up in Michigan in a pro-gun area, but I got into scrapes that convinced me to always carry a knife (best I could legally do at the time). I went to college and another scrape convinced me to take up martial arts, which I've done ever since. Until recently, I spent the past 20 years in Illinois, part of that in Chicago (where I started carrying OC spray in addition to my knife), because of my choice in jobs, and falling for an almost perfect (to my mind) woman.

    She only has two faults. The first is that her legs are too short (her words, not mine!). I really don't care all that much about the length of her legs. The second is she was brought up in an anti-gun environment. To her credit, she realized shortly after dating me and meeting my then-boss that guns don't make you a criminal or a psychopath. She did remain pretty much in a white mindset until our son was born 12 years ago (amazing what kids will do to you). She still doesn't carry, even though we are now in Florida and the crime rate here is higher than Illinois. I'm hoping the recent smash and grab on her car will change her mind finally.

    We have travelled to places that you could not carry (D.C., NYC, the Carribean) and what ended up happening was that we were more aware of our surroundings, took more precautions, limited our explorations more than we would have someplace else. Even going back to Chicago and visiting old friends and family, I felt uneasy most of the weekend. But in my mind those trips were worth it, but not as good as they could have been if I had the option of carrying.

    To be fair, there are places all over you can't legally carry (federal courthouses, for example) where you do the best you can for self defense and minimize the time spent in them.

    I guess I take on the responsibility of defending my wife and son when I am present, but I'm concerned about their security when I'm not with them.

    What I am trying to say is if you love someone, you'll work on the relationship unless there is some issue that is a deal breaker. For my wife and I, differing positions on self defense wasn't that deal breaker. It may be for Betty and MrShonts.

    I'm sorry if this replay is kind of fragmented, but I wanted to express how my life's experiences shaped my defense philosophy and how I am still trying to influence my friends and family. Hope it helped.

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