Tough choice in carrying??
This is a discussion on Tough choice in carrying?? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm not for routinely violating "policy", but as compared to your legal right to protect yourself, I would tend to pick and choose....sorry guys, but ...
June 7th, 2005 09:04 PM
I'm not for routinely violating "policy", but as compared to your legal right to protect yourself, I would tend to pick and choose....sorry guys, but policymakers aren't always right. Viper brought up a good point about the guy getting fired...but, he made a fundamental mistake perhaps in letting those he worked with know that he carried. Nobody has anything to fear from a law-abiding individual (you). You have to decide, but if you choose to violate company policy, then be extremely discreet. I tend to think the odds of you actually needing a weapon are pretty remote and therefore, you are not likely to get "discovered" breaking company policy. I'm saying all this based on limited knowledge of your work environment, and the immediate surroundings.
My place of work also has policy against weapons in the workplace. But I work in an area that is extremely safe (that goes for the parking lot too). There are armed security personnel that patrol the parking lots here, so having to leave my weapon in the truck doesn't phase me the least, and I'm certainly not going to get mugged between the work doors and my truck door. My primary concern is getting safely from home to work and back again, given the occasion sidetrack to the store. And as others have said before, it is best to be armed and not need it than....you know the rest.
Let me be clear here....I don't subscribe to or condone breaking the "law". Company policy is not the "law" and in my humble opinion is open to a different interpretation with respect to my personal safety.
"Endeavor To Persevere"
Chief Dan George
June 7th, 2005 11:57 PM
Well, here's my two cents. I feel a man (or a woman), i.e., a person of chacter and integrity ought to be honest in all maters and respect others rights as much as they'd like their own to be respected. Having said that, jobs are contracts between a company and an individual. They offer a job with certain requirements, benefits, and salary. You consider their offer and if you choose to accept and they start paying, you have the legal requirements of a binding contract. Offer, acceptance and the exchange of consideration between competent parties. (no jokes on the competent part ). Since the company is the "author" of the contract they have some rights and some responsibilities. They can basically set the terms as author, i.e., no guns on the property. Irregardless of how any of us might feel about it, it's their right. Violate their right and all you're saying is that your rights are more important that their rights. I'll only agree with you on that point if they're doing something illegal or dangerous to you. Then you have the right to protect and defend. Short of that, you need to walk. If you accept their contract and work for them, then you are in effect giving them your word that you have accepted their terms. Now I'll probably get flamed and there might be some who'll get emotional and say their right to defend themselves usurps every other right out there and that it's a company, not an individual. Well, that argument is based on little more than emotional grandstanding. So if it comes, it comes, but the bottom line is, just like Betty's position on where she'll travel or not. If she can't carry legally she won't go there. We'd all agree she (we) should be able to carry anywhere but the truth is we can't. So, Betty "respects" the law that she might disagree with and I can respect her for it. So it's really about integrity. To pretend I didn't read something that I did in some way to defend myself if I ever got caught would be a lack of integrity. So, is my right to defend myself more important than integrity, keeping the laws and being an honest citizen? No, it's not or it all goes down the tubes a lot fastre than it may seem like it is right now. So, if you want to carry, get a job that accomodates your legal rights and desires but I'd had to see any of us tread on the rights of others (even corporations) and then try to stand their and defend our rights?
What made this country great is that we are willing to give up some rights in order that we all can have liberty.
Well, I'll get off my soap box, I just find it disturbing how easily some people in society will tromp on the rights of others and then seem so amazed that anyone would do so to them.
My company has a policy that there aren't to be any weapons on the property. I read it 3 years after starting work there. I went to the HR director and shared my concern. I didn't tell him about CCW (I don't tell anyone about that, ever) but mentioned that I often have guns with me so I can stop by the range to shoot or go hunting after work and mentioned that I was confident others did the same since hunting and shooting sports are so common around here. He said he understood and that wouldn't be a problem as long as they stayed in the car and I was discreet about it. I emailed him about it in order to have a document and I'm doing just that. I don't carry into work because I respect their rights and it IS thier right. To deny thier right in any way shape or form would be absolutely unfounded and unjustifiable. I have the choice to simply work somewhere else. I decided to keep the job.
Each of us must make our own choice but I hope all of us can see how this is really much more a matter of integrity and rights (mine and others) then some might see it.
The reality of 24/7 carry is that it will affect how you dress, where you go, where you work, and even (to some extend) your activities and conduct. Praise the Lord for Personal Liberty!
God Bless and Mr Shonts, if you're still reading, I'd love to hear what you think of that new K40 after you've had a chance to shoot it a bunch.
June 8th, 2005 12:20 AM
I would say to go with the "don't ask, don't tell rule. I would also not consider locking your weapon in your vehicle while in the office. You may be held liable for it being "unsecured, and not under your control" should your vehicle be stolen, and the weapon used in the commission of a crime. Just a thought from an old dog here LOL...woof!
June 8th, 2005 09:29 AM
I am the Executive Director in my non-profit organization and I would, in my position never tell you to willfully ignore the companies policy on firearms but, if you properly carry concealed, no one should know that you are ignoring the companies policy of not carrying firearms.
Yes I carry, no it is not written, most of my Board of Directors would probably strongly object......so it's a situation that I must be careful with in my office. 2 of my 7 employees are also CHL holders and 3 others are anti-gun people.
The only thing needed for evil to exist is for good men to stand by and do nothing!!!
June 8th, 2005 02:43 PM
Concealed means CONCEALED.
June 8th, 2005 04:17 PM
If your job doesn't have you going through metal detectors or visiting places where firearms are forbidden by law, then go for it. Unfortunately, my job has me doing both (at least there's security where I work and two factor access mechanisms...).
FWIW, the Kel-Tec P32 or P3AT is ideal for this. Light, flat, and small. It'll be difficult to see in a pocket.
June 9th, 2005 11:45 AM
For another $150 or so (at least in OK), you can go through the CLEET Armed Security officer training program. This will usually answer the "pre-approved" objection, if you feel better about getting the training first and talking to your boss later. Or just ask what hoops you have to jump through to be "approved". I have a couple of family members working for DHS in TN, and I know they carry for all home-visits. Personally, I would never leave a weapon in my vehicle. That's just me. I would look at the KelTecs or Rohrbaugh 9mm's, and a good pocket holster, and keep my mouth shut.
FYI: Many, many, many Postal employees carry. You can tell who does, by who parks off the PO lot or takes the bus to work.
June 9th, 2005 03:10 PM
Used to be fishing/hunting buddies with the local UPS man. He told me that "most of (us)them carry." I can see why. They are in some pretty ugly neighborhoods. -----
June 9th, 2005 03:36 PM
My company policy reads something to the affect of "Possession of firearms (that are not job-related), weapons or explosives are not permitted on company premises or time."
The "company TIME" thing is what gets me....I also drive a company car.
BUT....I'd rather get fired than killed.
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