June 7th, 2005 01:06 PM
Tough choice in carrying??
I actually just found out that the organization that I work for has a policy against carrying concealed weapons. It reads: Carrying Concealed Weapons: carrying concealed weapons on company property or concealing a weapon on company property (unless so approved in advance) will result in immediate termination.
When I was first hired on I did not know that this rule was even in the books but now that I know, what should I do? I could go to our state director and talk to her to see if she will allow it (which I do not think she would). Or, I could keep the gun in my car, or carry to work and go about my day like nothing happened. What is everyone’s opinion on this? I don't want to be fired but on the other hand I do want to protect myself if something were to happen.
FYI, my official title is Family and Youth Therapeutic Coordinator (FYTC). I talk with youth and their bio-logical parents as well as their foster parents. I also do a lot of driving to different schools, youths home, Department of Children’s Services office, Court, transporting youth as well as meeting the youth in my office.
June 7th, 2005 01:18 PM
Sounds like you're a Therapist or Social Worker. My wife does much of the same thing and meetings in questionable neighborhoods are the norm. I have tried to get her to consider carrying but like you, company policy (not to mention, personal choice) deters. Being witness to such acts as drug violence and domestic disputes can errupt behond your control, and often-times getting yourself caught in between. Unfortunatley there isn't a clear choice. Is my job worth my life? Hard one to answer. Short of hiring a personal bodyguard, there should be some safeguards in place. Find out if any exist and what company can do to ensure your safety. Sorry but cell phones and 911 doesn't cut it.
June 7th, 2005 01:21 PM
This is a tough decision that only you can make.
I don't know of any large company that doesn't have a "no weapons" policy at this point! My adage has always been "don't ask, don't tell", and I've always assumed the small risk that I could be fired. I make my assessments on risk potential of where I'm going, hassle factor of carrying, etc.
Be careful around schools as the laws in most/all states prohibit carry on school property and many prohibit it within cars on the property as well. You need to check your state laws, as this one could be a prosecutable crime.
June 7th, 2005 01:34 PM
sometimes there is a difference between obeying policy, and abiding by laws.
my employer has a 'no weapons' policy (at least until everyone agrees to the new improved employee handbook, which doesnt mention weapons at all!) but thats all it is: a policy. it is completely legal for me to carry at work. i just might get fired for it. well, actually, my boss knows i carry, and he doesnt care so i wouldnt get canned.
now, if my work was in places where weapons were illegal, thats a different story.
some may tell you their life is worth more than their job, or that its better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6, but in all honesty, those who CCW do abide by the laws of the land.
June 7th, 2005 01:56 PM
I know that when I am in court and in the schools I will not carry but my only dilemma is if I should carry while I am in the office or when I am in these families’ homes. If I do leave it in my car I will have to get some sort of lock box since I will be transporting youth at times but if the gun is ever found in my car while I am at work I could be fired.
It's a tough choice that I still have not made up yet but all of your opinions are welcome!
FYI, I am a social worker at this time and I am also working on my masters degree so I will eventually become a therapist.
June 7th, 2005 01:59 PM
I'm a moron for not noticing this earlier. My company policy reads that I am not to carry while I am in the office or on company property so the only thing that I have to decide is if I should carry while I am in the office and not while I am on the road.
This rule says nothing in there about carrying unless your in the office!! WHOO HOO
June 7th, 2005 01:59 PM
Well, as I posted in the previous thread related to this subject.
In that thread, located here:
To Carry, Or Not?, I stated:
The same still stands.
Concealed is concealed, eaten by a mountain lion is eaten by a mountain lion.
My duty to family overrides my duty to my employer.
No job is worth my daughter growing up daddyless. I will do what I have to to ensure that I return home come evening. Period.
"Water can flow, or it can crash. Be like water, my friend."-Bruce Lee
"Luck, often enough, will save a man if his courage does hold."
June 7th, 2005 02:03 PM
do you drive a company car or your own ... my company call the work van company property so they get me there tooo... Sorry i go by dont ask i woont tell
June 7th, 2005 02:06 PM
I drive my own car so I suppose that I could lock it up in there while I am at the office.
June 7th, 2005 02:18 PM
Thankfully for me my company doesn't have a written policy about weapons, so as long as I am in an area where I am coved by my permits then I carry.
Rantings of a Right Wing Nutjob
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June 7th, 2005 03:06 PM
If you choose to go against company policy, you do so at your own risk.
Since you say your job won't allow you to carry unless you're "pre-approved," hopefully they may actually allow you to carry, if you want to risk exposing yourself as a carry permit holder if they say No. I do believe some companies have these weapons policies as a knee-jerk reaction, thinking only about workplace offense and not defense, and not really realizing that no printed words in a manual would stop a madman from going on a shooting spree - they're just stopping decent folks from protecting themselves from the madman.
If you choose to discuss the matter with your employer, hopefully he/she will see that you are a calm, rational, highly decent person. You just want to protect yourself and your loved ones, not spray the office with bullets. Besides my dad, you're the most even-tempered person I know, and good grief, if I can't push your buttons, I don't know who can.
Since your job description means traveling with the kids and possibly going to schools, there's the issue of discreetly unholstering/reholstering while in the presence of kids. You may want to map a sample day to see how the disarming/rearming thing will work.
I know your glovebox doesn't lock, and it's not that hard breaking into a trunk. There's the GunVault Minivault that you can bolt to the inside of your trunk (or anywhere in your car) that can give you a keypad or keylock access to your weapon.
"Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa
June 7th, 2005 03:27 PM
Carry in the office:
- Do clients ever come to the office?
- Have their ever been incidents of clients/co-workers going crazy ("postal") in the office? What is the likelihood of this happening (risk assessment)?
- What is the safety/security of cars parked on the property like or wherever you park? If cars are frequently stolen/vandalized/broken into, I'd be reluctant to leave a gun in a car (even if locked up).
- I would NOT assume that if a policy says "no guns unless authorized/permission granted" that they would ever actually grant permission. And once you "come out of the closet" you can't stuff the genie back in the bottle. If told no and you comply, they still may chose to shake you down to make sure you comply. Even one spent casing in the trunk or under a seat might be used to terminate you. NOT worth the chance! Only exception that I'd take to my statement here is if you knew that your boss CCW'd or was very pro-gun/RKBA.
- I'd be VERY concerned with any possibility that any kid at any time could spot your gun, spot the safe bolted to the car floor, etc. and then say something that gets back to your employer. Even if the safe is empty, they can try to use it as "proof" that you sometimes carry a gun in the car when on business with the kids, etc.
- Kids can NOT keep a secret and they are eternally curious, so some of Betty's points here are "spot on" and deserve a lot of consideration.
- I say that you can NOT discreetly unholster with any kids around at any time!
Sorry that I don't have any answers for you in your circumstances as I understand them.
June 7th, 2005 05:47 PM
There are few good instances where I'll recommend off-body carry. In your case, I'd consider it if nothing else for ease of stashing that discrete daytimer in the trunk or something similar before entering the forbidden places on your list.
Driver carries less than $45 worth of remorse.
June 7th, 2005 07:28 PM
About two years ago, a friend of mine was fired at work for carrying in his car.
His car was stolen in the company parking lot one day, and he had to report his Kimber .45 ACP was in the glove box. When management heard of this, he was written up, and put on indefiniate probation. They waited 2 weeks until he made a minor mistake (coming in late), and used that excuse to fire him.
His car was actually rather crappy old car. So it's weird that it was stolen among the much newer cars in the lot. He only had a few close friends that knew he carried, so he doesn't believe it was an "inside job". Most likely dumb luck.
June 7th, 2005 07:40 PM
I have a day-planner that discretely carries a Colt .380 ACP and a spare mag.
If it makes your situation more tolerable, I will send it to you immediately.
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