Teacher wants permission to carry gun in school WITH POLL

Teacher wants permission to carry gun in school WITH POLL

This is a discussion on Teacher wants permission to carry gun in school WITH POLL within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; http://www.ktvb.com/news/regional/st....bee6d2b6.html 01:51 PM MDT on Monday, September 10, 2007 Associated Press MEDFORD, Ore. -- A high school teacher in southern Oregon plans to challenge a ...

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Thread: Teacher wants permission to carry gun in school WITH POLL

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Teacher wants permission to carry gun in school WITH POLL

    http://www.ktvb.com/news/regional/st....bee6d2b6.html

    01:51 PM MDT on Monday, September 10, 2007

    Associated Press

    MEDFORD, Ore. -- A high school teacher in southern Oregon plans to challenge a school district policy that prevents her from carrying a gun on school grounds.

    Portland lawyer Jim Leuenberger said in an e-mail message to the Mail Tribune newspaper that he will ask a Jackson County judge to declare the Medford School District's policy "illegal and void" for holders of concealed handgun licenses.

    "There is a state statute that prohibits local governments -- including school boards -- from restricting possession of firearms by concealed firearm permit holders," Leuenberger said.

    Leuenberger said the teacher wishes to remain anonymous and he will list her name as "Jane Doe" in the complaint. When contacted by the Mail Tribune, the teacher said she wants anonymity because she fears for her and her daughter's safety.

    Leuenberger said the woman has divorced her husband and obtained a restraining order against him.

    The woman contacted the lawyer and the Oregon Firearms Federation after school officials approached her about rumors that she was carrying a weapon. Schools attorney Tim Gerking said the teacher denied the accusation, but officials reminded her about the district policy.

    "It's our responsibility to provide a safe learning environment for our students and a safe working environment for our employees," Gerking said in an interview late last week. "We feel that would not be fostered by allowing folks, whether they have the authority or not, to bring weapons onto campus, in particular firearms -- loaded firearms."

    Kevin Starrett, executive director of the firearms federation, said he had been looking for a case like this one so he could challenge schools' prohibition of firearms.

    "We were approached by the individual because she had been threatened by the school district," Starrett said. "It was just a perfect opportunity for us to get some judicial resolution to this."

    Though the Medford teacher wants the gun to protect herself from an ex-husband, Starrett said armed teachers could prevent school shootings.

    "I worry about people being gunned down like dogs because they've been denied the right to have their self-defense firearm," Starrett said.

    But School Board Chairman Mike Moran, a retired lieutenant with the Medford Police Department, said he's worried that the firearm could fall into the hands of a student.

    "Even if it's a totally legitimate person with a legitimate permit, can you adequately guarantee that it will not fall into the hands of a student?" Moran asked. "You can't."
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!


  2. #2
    Member Array silver dollar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post

    "Even if it's a totally legitimate person with a legitimate permit, can you adequately guarantee that it will not fall into the hands of a student?" Moran asked. "You can't."
    The answer depends on how you define the word "adequately". Can you adequately guarantee that it will not fall into the hands of a student? I believe you can. Can you ABSOLUTELY guarantee that it will not? Of course not. But if you place that requirement on a person, no one will ever be able to carry a gun, including police officers. I carry a handgun 16/7. I am often around children. I take measures to maintain control of the gun. First of all I keep it in a holster on my person. If I remove it for any reason, it goes into a locked safe (I have one in my home and car). Is that adequate protection? I believe so. Is it a 100% guarantee? No, I could have a heart attack, drop dead, someone could start CPR on me, discover my handgun, begin playing with it and......boom! The point is that we have to protect children, we also have to allow responsible citizens the means to protect themselves. Both can be accomplished if people are thoughtful and reasonable.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Of course she can adequately guarantee that her personally carried and concealed firearm will not fall into the hands of a student.
    The same as she can guarantee same for her personally carried and concealed underwear or for that matter any other teacher or staff person could say for their dentures.

    A firearm that is physically kept on ones person not carried externally and openly and is concealed on their persons is effectively then non-existant to anyone including even students.
    Mr. Moran of all people should know this from interacting with criminals who as a matter of standard practice carry weapons concealed on their person.

    His question and resulting assumptive answer shows he is a moron or at the very least ignorant toward the many multiple methods and means of discrete civilian legal, safe, and effective carry of firearms.



    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    Too bad you cannot vote or even view results without telling them all your personal details.

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    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    "It's our responsibility to provide a safe learning environment for our students and a safe working environment for our employees," Gerking said in an interview late last week. "We feel that would not be fostered by allowing folks, whether they have the authority or not, to bring weapons onto campus, in particular firearms -- loaded firearms."

    OH! And just how do they plan to do this? By putting up a stupid "gun free zone" sign. If her X attacks her at work and she survives can she sue them for not providing that "safe working environment" they claim exists, especially since she now informed them that this may happen?

    "But School Board Chairman Mike Moran, a retired lieutenant with the Medford Police Department, said he's worried that the firearm could fall into the hands of a student."

    "Even if it's a totally legitimate person with a legitimate permit, can you adequately guarantee that it will not fall into the hands of a student?" Moran asked. "You can't."



    What a stupid requirement this is. Can this guy "adequately guarantee" that a policeman's gun will not fall into a student's hands? He can't even adequately guarantee her safety.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

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    Member Array Fultonian's Avatar
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    "Even if it's a totally legitimate person with a legitimate permit, can you adequately guarantee that it will not fall into the hands of a student?" Moran asked. "You can't."

    If the teacher is carrying it concealed, in my opinion, it is less accessible by a student than an officer carrying one openly.
    "The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him,
    but because he loves what is behind him."

    - G.K. Chesterton [ 1874 - 1936 ]

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    Just voted. Only 29% yes so far.

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    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musketeer View Post
    Too bad you cannot vote or even view results without telling them all your personal details.
    Make some up. There's no confirmation, but I had to click on the "vote" link twice.

    Current results

    Rational Thinking People (Yes): 29.41% 412 Votes
    Knee-Jerk Mental Midgets (No): 67.45% 945 Votes
    Indecisive Spaghetti-Spined Fence-Riders (Unsure): 3.21% 45 Votes

    We can turn it around, and probably get the poll shut down.

    Oh, and the Chairman is kidding himself. Any object carried on-body and concealed is automatically secured. The underwear analogy is perfect.

  9. #9
    Member Array popo22's Avatar
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    This is exactly like current police administrators who look at the liability issue from only one perspective. Depending on your "side of the fence" you can make a seemingly logical argument for many positions. If the teacher is willing to submit to an independent psychological assessment (as do most LEO's today) and go through proper training, what is the real difference between her and any other public servant? Does anyone have the right or authority to mandate whether you can protect yourself or loved ones? I think not.
    A Wise Man Changes His Mind, but a Fool Never Does

  10. #10
    Member Array Dihappy's Avatar
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    "Even if it's a totally legitimate person with a legitimate permit, can you adequately guarantee that it will not fall into the hands of a student?" Moran asked. "You can't."
    Gosh, what an idiot! I wish they would interview me! :)

    Can this dude "adequately guarantee" that a student wont bring a gun onto campus?

    Can he "adequately guarantee" every student and teachers safety if a gunman comes onto campus?

    This guy obviously subscribes to the idea that "only cops" should carry guns.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    Michigan at present has House Bill 5162 (2007) in legislature to allow Teacher that have a valid CCW to carry in school, http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(o1p...e=2007-HB-5162 I hope it passes.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    This will be an interesting situation to monitor, especially if the teacher in question is attacked at school by her ex-husband, or on the way where she would have to be disarmed in order to follow the school policy. Hopefully, a good decision in SCOTUS on the Parker case, as well as fresh legal challenges as a result of a pro-2a decision.

    we can only hope.....
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  13. #13
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    It's really a no brainer.... Of Course she should have the right to carry her lawfully concealed weapon in school to protect herself from a valid and really any potential threat!

    The school knows this is common sense... however the school chooses to ignore common sense and go for the politically motivated response they are attempting to indoctrinate into everyone! Guns are bad... only police should have guns... and there are no stupid or dangerous police.

    And if something happens to the woman in school by her ex-husband... they will do the other thing that the bleeding heart leftists do, and do well.... blame someone else and accept absolutely no responsibility for failing to provide adequate security for the school or the teacher

    +1 on Jang & Silver Dollar's posts!
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  14. #14
    Member Array K4Kimber's Avatar
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    Just voted

    Now the results are tipping over 30 %

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musketeer View Post
    Too bad you cannot vote or even view results without telling them all your personal details.
    This is why I didn't vote...see above...
    ************************************************


    And...
    Sadly, I think that people think that arming teachers means...ALL teachers line up on the first day of school and get their supplies: pencils, paper, lesson plan book, grade book, and a Glock...
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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