Police shooting in Flagstaff AZ.

Police shooting in Flagstaff AZ.

This is a discussion on Police shooting in Flagstaff AZ. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Boy the anti's are all over this one!!! Mentally ill man bought gun legally By LARRY HENDRICKS Assistant City Editor Thursday, September 13, 2007 The ...

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Thread: Police shooting in Flagstaff AZ.

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    Senior Member Array flagflyfish's Avatar
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    Police shooting in Flagstaff AZ.

    Boy the anti's are all over this one!!!

    Mentally ill man bought gun legally


    By LARRY HENDRICKS
    Assistant City Editor
    Thursday, September 13, 2007


    The mentally ill man who was shot and killed by police after he shot and wounded a Flagstaff detective bought three guns legally two years prior to his death.

    Not only did he pass a required background check on the first gun he bought, he was also able to obtain a concealed weapons permit from the state.

    He was able to buy the guns because of a "loophole" in the system regarding mental illness, says the gun store owner who sold Mark E. Steiger the handguns.

    The gun Steiger used to shoot the detective is a high-velocity, vest-penetrating weapon dubbed by some a "cop killer."

    But Steiger did not have the high-velocity ammunition, according to the store owner.

    Steiger, 38, was shot by police Monday afternoon in a wooded area near the west side Coconino Estates neighborhood. Prior to police opening fire, he had shot several times at officers and wounded Detective Todd Bishop, who had attempted to subdue him alive with a Taser.

    The steps leading up to Steiger's death began Saturday, when his family called police wanting him to get help for his mental illness. Responding officers encountered Steiger on his porch armed with a gun. Steiger fled from police and hid out until Sunday, when he opened fire on an unoccupied police car in his neighborhood. A multi-agency search ensued.

    STEIGER ISSUED A CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMIT

    Steiger, although suffering a mental illness that required medication, bought three handguns at Ruff's Sporting Goods in Flagstaff in 2005.

    The first purchase was April 25, said Herb Bridgman, co-owner of Ruff's. He purchased a weapon that was the same caliber used to wound Bishop -- an FN 57.
    Going through his FBI background check, Steiger's purchase was placed on "delayed," Bridgman said. A delay means an FBI examiner makes a more thorough assessment of Steiger's background. After three days, if the store does not hear back from the examiner, the sale is allowed to proceed, according to the law. Steiger received his handgun on April 29, 2005

    According to court records, Steiger's criminal history at the time included two misdemeanor convictions in 2000, which does not prevent a person in Arizona from owning a gun.

    One of his convictions was for carrying a concealed weapon without a permit.

    Steiger's second purchase, a 9 mm handgun, came a month later on May 28, Bridgman said. He did not have to go through a background check because he had received a permit from the state to carry a concealed weapon.

    To receive a concealed weapons permit in 2005, applicants had to undergo 16 hours of instruction, submit a set of fingerprints for a background check and pass a written exam.

    On Aug. 4, Steiger purchased a third gun -- another FN 57. No background check was required because he had the concealed weapons permit.

    NO COURT ADJUDICATION OF MENTAL ILLNESS

    One of the questions on the U.S. Department of Justice document used to track firearms transactions states: "Have you ever been adjudicated as mentally defective (which includes having been adjudicated incompetent to manager your own affairs) or have you ever been committed to a mental institution?

    Bridgman explained that unless a court has determined a person mentally defective, even if mentally ill and receiving medication, that information will not show up in a background check.

    Information about a doctor treating a person for a mental illness and prescribing medication will not show up in a background check, and is actually protected medical information by law.

    That's a loophole, Bridgman said, that means gun store owners cannot legally prevent a person with a serious mental illness from purchasing a gun.

    Additionally, even if a person has been adjudicated as mentally defective, courts often have substantial lag time in notifying federal authorities -- which is the case with the young man who killed 32 people at Virginia Tech in April, he added.

    GUN ORIGINALLY INTENDED FOR POLICE

    The weapon Steiger used to wound Bishop was originally intended to be used by law enforcement and military to fire small bullets at high velocity to penetrate bulletproof vests.

    The weapon has a stigma around it. Anti-gun groups have tried to get the FN 57 banned, calling the weapon a "cop killer" because of the vest-penetrating capability.

    A civilian version is available, although the vest-penetrating ammunition is not.

    "He did not have that ammunition," Bridgman said.

    Even his store is not allowed to purchase the vest-penetrating ammunition, he added.

    Bridgman went on to say that other weapons on the market have much more power and similar velocity of bullets.

    Those who buy FN 57 pistols typically do so to target practice and hunt "varmints," or animals deemed to be a nuisance by humans.

    Larry Hendricks can be reached at 556-2262 or lhendricks@azdailysun.com.



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    The guys at the gunstore are really good guys, they certainly don't deserve this kind of prejudice. The writer of this story is an outright mental defective (liberal)
    "These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier
    and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the
    service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the
    love and thanks of man and woman."

    -- Thomas Paine (The American Crisis, No. 1, 19 December 1776)


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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    I really hope the wounded officer comes out of this ok. Of course the anti's are all over this. Got to love the "cop-killer" tags. I would be willing to bet that I can penetrate a vest with a reasonable quality steak knife. Should we label them as cop-killers and ban them too?
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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    Senior Member Array flagflyfish's Avatar
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    Yea, Det Bishop is already home, the bullet entered his upper arm, lodged on the inside of the vest.
    Most of the LEO in Flagstaff are very pro-gun, most of them can be seen at the local cinder pit, shooting. This is very unusal to happen in our little mountain town.
    "These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier
    and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the
    service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the
    love and thanks of man and woman."

    -- Thomas Paine (The American Crisis, No. 1, 19 December 1776)

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    Member Array Puppy's Avatar
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    Kansas has that loop hole also. However, you do have to pass the background check every time you purchase a gun and the CCWL is irrelevant. If you buy a gun today, and another one tomorrow, you will be "run" both times.

    We do need to close those loopholes whereby nut jobs can get guns though.

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    Senior Member Array mocarryguy's Avatar
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    Have to be careful how we deal with "loopholes." These kinds of things can be used for not so good purposes real easy. Will be interesting to see how it is addressed.
    Now, where do I get me one of them there "cop killer" bullets...I am sure they have them at the grocery store..
    I know, I know, you are smarter than me..just ask you..

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    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    so, what exact "mental illness" did this guy have? was he taking anti-depression meds? Was this recently diagnosed? This is an unfortunate incident, but the article seems to have a clear slant to it.

    The officer was not shot with an armor-piercing bullet, the guy bought his guns 2yrs ago, at which time we don't know his mental state, and he successfully passed multiple background checks for his CWP and his first purchase, again 2yrs ago.

    Sounds to me like a disturbed individual attacked a LEO and got himself killed in the process. Why does it matter what kind of gun it was, or how he got it, so long as he legally owned it?

    I'm glad to hear the officer was not badly injured.

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    I am glad the store owner was allowed to explain the differences in the types of ammunition and the ammo which penitrates body armor is restricted and not even available to the store owners.

    At least he got to counter some of the "cop killer" bias.

    I know there are other news outlets who wouldn't have published any of the store owners comments and poured heavy on the evil FN Five seveN worse than this article.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    Glad the cop is OK...glad the shooter is dead...!
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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    Distinguished Member Array P7fanatic's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by flagflyfish View Post
    Boy the anti's are all over this one!!!

    Mentally ill man bought gun legally

    By LARRY HENDRICKS
    Assistant City Editor
    Thursday, September 13, 2007

    The gun Steiger used to shoot the detective is a high-velocity, vest-penetrating weapon dubbed by some a "cop killer."

    The weapon has a stigma around it. Anti-gun groups have tried to get the FN 57 banned, calling the weapon a "cop killer" because of the vest-penetrating capability.

    Larry Hendricks can be reached at 556-2262 or lhendricks@azdailysun.com.

    Print this story | Email this story | Return to News

    The writer of this story is an outright mental defective (liberal)
    I feel like e-mailing or calling this dimplebrain of a writer and letting him know that no guns are 'cop killers'. It's the person pulling the trigger that's trying to do the killing.
    Also, as mentioned earlier, a good knife or an ice pick will penetrate a vest.
    Glad the detective is doing fine.
    Not so much luck for the cop down in SE Florida today.

    GOOD GUN CONTROL Is Being Able To Hit Your Target!


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    VIP Member Array aus71383's Avatar
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    Stupid article, thanks for the post. I guess next time the cop will be less likely to try the Taser first...glad he's okay. I think it is a person's right to own firearms, and I don't think its right to judge someone mentally anything. This guy got what was coming to him - he's dead.

    Austin

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    Senior Member Array FlyboyLDB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puppy View Post
    Kansas has that loop hole also. However, you do have to pass the background check every time you purchase a gun and the CCWL is irrelevant. If you buy a gun today, and another one tomorrow, you will be "run" both times.

    We do need to close those loopholes whereby nut jobs can get guns though.
    I have to disagree on this one. The loophole is not the concealed license being used in lieu of a back ground check. It is the fact that there needs to be a requirement from the mental health professionals to make a "do not recommend" report to the FBI. They will not have to disclose any personal health info - and have it setup that one can have this "Do Not Recommend" report over turned with the letters of two seperate health care professionals. I utilize my carry permit for gun purchases here in Georgia. Think about it - he still goes through the same background check without using his carry license - the only thing that may get him flagged is multiple purchases - then the FBI investigates a little further - nothing turns up or the 3 day lapses allowing him to pick up the gun regardless. jmo

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    Member Array PcMakr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puppy View Post
    We do need to close those loopholes whereby nut jobs can get guns though.
    Define "nut job". That is a very loose term. What may define a nut job to one person may seem OK to another. Have to be careful about terminology especially when the government is involved. A doctor may decide that anyone that wants to have a gun for whatever reason is a "nut job", and thus by definition we suddenly lose our right to own firearms.

    Puppy - Wherabouts in KS are you. I'm in the Wichita area.

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    VIP Member Array pogo2's Avatar
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    Officer wounded in arm, not vest

    Quote Originally Posted by flagflyfish View Post
    Det Bishop is already home, the bullet entered his upper arm, lodged on the inside of the vest.
    In the story, the writer spends a great deal of time talking about the particular handgun used to do the shooting, and how it is "designed" to penetrate bullet proof vests. Yet the officer was shot in the upper arm, not through his vest. So the "vest penetrating" gun angle is irrelevant, even if the shooter had the correct ammunition for his gun, which he did not. Any gun could have been used to shoot the officer in an unprotected arm.

    This would seem to indicate the writer has an agenda beyond the simple reporting of the facts of the story.

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Yeah, the anti's are all over this one.

    I went to school in Flag, years ago. It wasn't so bad then. Went back last year and I thought I was in CA with all the "tree hugging bunny loving granola eating ferrets".

    To think that northern AZ used to be a bastion of conservatism and to see what it has turned in to now.
    Last edited by BikerRN; September 14th, 2007 at 05:39 PM.

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    Senior Member Array rljohns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PcMakr View Post
    Define "nut job". That is a very loose term. What may define a nut job to one person may seem OK to another. Have to be careful about terminology especially when the government is involved. A doctor may decide that anyone that wants to have a gun for whatever reason is a "nut job", and thus by definition we suddenly lose our right to own firearms.

    Puppy - Wherabouts in KS are you. I'm in the Wichita area.
    I would call "nut job" as paranoid schizophrenic, bipolar off meds, severe depression not addressed. That would be my small list with documentation. I think it would need to be a paper trail with history.

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