Gun Control Myths Busted

This is a discussion on Gun Control Myths Busted within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The Gun Owners Foundation must have the single best gun control myth buster I have come across. It can be found at Gun Control Fact ...

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Thread: Gun Control Myths Busted

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Cool Gun Control Myths Busted

    The Gun Owners Foundation must have the single best gun control myth buster I have come across. It can be found at Gun Control Fact Sheet It is very long 65 pages with 23 pages of citations /sources but well worth the read. Tried to post it here but can't because it is 109,314 characters to big. The limit is 10,000 characters. Because it is so lengthy and because some may want to review some of the sources it cites I made a PDF version of it that you can download and print it out by clicking on GOF.pdf I did the best I could to maintain the authors format while keeping it readable and a reasonable size. Make some copies pass it around maybe some of these gun control fanatics will wake up. Or at least the ones they are fooling can read some truth. An excellent resource for anyone who wants some real fact based info on gun control with enough citations to keep me reading for months. I think I found me a new book list. Enjoy

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  3. #2
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    Array RETSUPT99's Avatar
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    Added to favorites...should be useful...Thanks!
    (It IS looooooong...)
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    excellant resource. thanks!

  5. #4
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    Thx for making the PDF Greg - ideal way to go

    I'd like to add that to my own 2A oriented site - do you reckon that would be OK?
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Why are these things rarely up to date?

    Folks go through the trouble of researching and writing these items but then they let them go stale for years or even as in the last thread like this a decade or more.
    Keep this stuff updated year to year as otherwise it loses relevancy and if/when shown to an anti would be seen as less than fact filled because the facts aren't up to date.

    This information is circa 2004 and my calendar right now is indicating it's 2007.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  7. #6
    Senior Member Array DrLewall's Avatar
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    We all know most of that stuff, the hard part is convincing all the anti gun/pro criminal "give em a chance" crybabies out there.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    Sorry but FACTS do not matter as much as our side thinks they do. We have had facts on our side for years yet the stability of our position is far from certain.

    Emotion drives this issue and we need to use it.

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Added to favorites...should be useful...Thanks!
    (It IS looooooong...)
    Seems I have heard that before

    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry View Post
    Thx for making the PDF Greg - ideal way to go
    I'd like to add that to my own 2A oriented site - do you reckon that would be OK?
    I went to his at the copyrights page. It says that as long as you give credit to him and a link back to his site you are good to go. His link and info is at the top of the PDF. Definitely no problem giving credit where credit is due that guy put alot of work into that. So it looks like you can post the text on your site as long as you meet those conditions. You could contact him if you wanted to be really sure. You of course are welcome to upload the PDF file to your site and use it

    Quote Originally Posted by Musketeer View Post
    Sorry but FACTS do not matter as much as our side thinks they do. We have had facts on our side for years yet the stability of our position is far from certain.

    Emotion drives this issue and we need to use it.
    There is an excellent article I think I got the link from one of the threads its on the JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION
    OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP
    website. That discusses that very topic and has some good insight on how to deal with it. There is a pdf of that too at Raging Against Self Defense.pdf. Hope that helps

    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Why are these things rarely up to date?

    Folks go through the trouble of researching and writing these items but then they let them go stale for years or even as in the last thread like this a decade or more.
    Keep this stuff updated year to year as otherwise it loses relevancy and if/when shown to an anti would be seen as less than fact filled because the facts aren't up to date.

    This information is circa 2004 and my calendar right now is indicating it's 2007.

    - Janq
    I have no idea you could contact the guy and ask him. My guess is his sources are not published every year and a 20 plus page list of books / reports don't get read overnight. I know that it took more than a minute or two to create that page. It is relevant to me and current enough hat I do not have any problem citing anything on it. Sorry it's not helpful to you as it appears you have more current and relevant data available to you. Maybe you could do a webpage like his with your data. I know I would definitely appreciate it. Again, sorry it's not helpful to you

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    ...I have no idea you could contact the guy and ask him. My guess is his sources are not published every year and a 20 plus page list of books / reports don't get read overnight. I know that it took more than a minute or two to create that page. It is relevant to me and current enough hat I do not have any problem citing anything on it. Sorry it's not helpful to you as it appears you have more current and relevant data available to you. Maybe you could do a webpage like his with your data. I know I would definitely appreciate it. Again, sorry it's not helpful to you
    Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking the guy in specific or those others in general who have done this type of effort.
    As well considering the number of sources cited and work involved there in I generally assume that the result is from the research work of many via collaboration.

    Regardless though still even as the information sources as cited might not have changed themselves I'd still update the document considering it is for public consumption to reflect current and most modern information be it as provided quotes, reports, news, and studies all of which are continually being released.

    I have myself done a similar job although for private consumption.
    It took me lots of time to compile the information which I then drafted as an e-mail to my wife, who is very much anti. It was comprehensive and full of links toward sources. I've cited many of those same sources being current and relevant throughout multiple threads toward same here at this forum and elsewhere.
    The results with my wife though were not positive. The reply being "I don't want to read all that propoganda(!)".



    The old saying 'You can lead a horse to water, but not make him drink.' is very much true.
    I have though had good success with persons other than my wife IRL taking them to the range and most recently just two days ago taking my neighbor who is a pacifist buddhist vegetarian with a hobby of bird watching to a course on Waterfowl Identification which itself is oriented toward duck hunting. My thought was that he'd enjoy the identification part of the education process while also seeing that the regulations and laws associated with hunting do protect species while at the same time helping manage wildlife which would on it's own grow to become unmanageable. Guess what...it's worked!
    Day one of the class was Wednesday night being three hours held and taught at the US Fish & Wildlife Service HQ in MA. In class in so many words my neighbor said that this was great stuff to learn and that he found it all very interesting including the history of hunting et. al. he even has interest in learning the differences between a rifle and shotgun which in class he told me he had no clue what was what. I promised to send him info and links toward images explaining what each are and how they differ and function.
    We go back to class on Saturday for part two at 8hrs. in length to learn more and cover observation of the species et. al. As he and I walked back to our cars in the parking lot he remarked to me about how he and his wife and daughter go bird watching by canoe and that he will take the printed guides we were given to help him in his hobby toward identification.
    From that effort one anti is educated and though he may not personally choose to become involved in shooting of any sort he now though will go home and share with his also anti wife and maybe help her see some if nt all of the light.

    I'm finding that as Muskateer mentioned facts matter less so much than emotion.
    It's kind of like everyone knows that smoking is bad for you and the facts toward it are in print everywhere. But then look at how many still to this day smoke. It's emotion.
    Items like these fact sheets are good for us the persons who have already drunk the Kool Aid to support our own assertions and to refer to when discussing as much with a fence rider or softer core anti. But sending them to these pages directly in hopes of a transformation, I've not yet IRL seen that work so well. Not to say one shouldn't try as I personally at home have.

    Regards and thanks none the less for the info source!

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Items like these fact sheets are good for us the persons who have already drunk the Kool Aid to support our own assertions and to refer to when discussing as much with a fence rider or softer core anti. But sending them to these pages directly in hopes of a transformation, I've not yet IRL seen that work so well. Not to say one shouldn't try as I personally at home have.

    Regards and thanks none the less for the info source!

    - Janq
    Absolutely, if I wanted to convince some one of that they have been brainwashed by media propaganda. I would not tell them hey you are brainwashed here look at these FACTs. That would just build a brick wall around them. The fact sheet for me is a tool to use when I do get to that part of hey you have been misinformed I can spoon feed them the information especially the AMA CDC .gov info. As they are not what most folks consider pro gun. I never use NRA specific data in the beginning because that of course is biased gun lobby propaganda. You know pick your battles. The other file I posted "Raging Against Self Defense" may be a good one for you to look at. Anti gun people are wired differently. It gives some good insight on how to get to where you can present logical information. Some one on this board gave a link out to some anti gun schmuck. Some other guys from here posted some good stuff. Calm clear logical. I made the mistake of posting exactly what I thought of him. Like the article says confronting is a bad move as it validates their belief gun owners are hostile aggressive people. My niece also posted and after that he shut down that whole thread. To bad, maybe we could have gotten through to some folks. My niece is a Halle Barry beautiful young lady who used to do work with at risk kids in the Hilltop area of Tacoma, pretty bad area for Washington. Her dad and I tried to get her to carry these were some seriously scary folks she dealt with day in and day out. but she believed all the Brady bunch bull. One night four bangers got ahold of her and kept her for four days. The crap they did to her you could not put in a XXX horror movie. Over eleven years later sometimes I look at her and just get sick. Envision Halle Barry with knife and cigarette burns scars all over her body INSIDE and out. How that girl is still the sweet heart she is is beyond me. But that soft sweet little girl demeanor changes when ever some anti gun nut spews their bull around her. Talk about emotional. She will make a grown man cry if she has too she will get naked to show them what their propaganda did to her. That is how she puts it too. YOU did this to me YOUR lies did this and YOUR lies will do it to another woman. She does not make it about her other than use her own story to show what happens when women who are rendered defenseless. It was her story that started my wife rethinking her anti gun stance and now she has an XD45, waiting for her permit so she can start to carry. But she was never really anti gun she grew up with most of the meat on the table being game of one kind or another. She was just reluctant to carry. Last month another woman up here was killed by a stalker she had a restraining order out on, because of our gun control laws. The stalker opted to kill her before her permit came through. Right now six women at my wife's work have stalkers that they have restraining orders against. My wife is starting a movement to have her work place change their gun free zone policy. They are letting the workplace know in writing by certified letter of the danger they are in. Making the work place aware that they are sending the letters so they can not claim ignorance when the SHTF. THat they the women intend on making the work place liable for making them defenseless on and off the property. Most of those women used to be anti gun too. Liberal health care workers. So it is possible just takes time. Jeez sorry for the rant was just gonna say yeah I agree. Sorry for the rant

  12. #11
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    Another very useful document is the Harvard study:

    http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/...useronline.pdf

    "This Article will not discuss the defensive use of firearms beyond making the following observations: while there is a great deal of controversy about the subject, it is a misleading controversy in which anti‐gun advocatesʹ deep ethical or moral objections to civilian self‐defense are presented in the guise of empirical argument. The empirical evidence unquestionably establishes that gun ownership by prospective victims not only allows them to resist criminal attack, but also deters violent criminals from attacking them in the first place."
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

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    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musketeer View Post
    Sorry but FACTS do not matter as much as our side thinks they do. We have had facts on our side for years yet the stability of our position is far from certain.

    Emotion drives this issue and we need to use it.
    I agree. They vilify us, it's high time we vilify them. The anti-gunners talk about blood being on our hands, not because we ourselves have shot anyone, but because we own guns and the criminals have guns so their actions with them must be our fault.

    They lie constantly. I'm not saying we should lie, but we certainly should not pull our punches when we set out to make them look stupid. I mean, they are stupid. And they're working hard to try to actually take away one of our rights (leaving us vulnerable to losing the rest of them). So we should be out there pointing out how stupid they are, and at the same time tugging at the opposite end of the emotions they yank on: when they talk about children killed, we should be talking about, "Yeah, and what if it's your child killed--because you had never given a thought to how you would defend them against a predator?!

    In other words, no more Mr. Nice Guy. A polite attitude toward those trying to harm us has not worked, not even with all the facts clearly on our side for decades.

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    I agree. They vilify us, it's high time we vilify them. The anti-gunners talk about blood being on our hands, not because we ourselves have shot anyone, but because we own guns and the criminals have guns so their actions with them must be our fault.
    I surely understand you sentiment. Anyone who has ever read any of my posts on this issue knows I don't have much room to talk in regards to staying detached and unemotional. I like many of us am very passionate about the topic. As the article said when I start to rant and flame, I undermine myself and my argument because in their mind I have confirmed their belief that I am a ranting gun toting fanatic. The result being I end up strengthening their misconceptions rather than convincing them. The other objection I have is ethical. Look each of knows or should know by strapping on a gun we we take on an obligation to function by a higher standard of moral conduct. Right? So, I think that our 2nd amendment rights discussions should reflect that. To hold ourselves to a higher standard than the Brady Bunch. That by doing so we do positively influence those who are not biased fear driven liberals. Now the one point you made I do agree on, when they start to accuse us of having blood on our hands. I point out those that have died because they were unarmed. Thats a tactic my niece introduced me too. When this beautiful soft spoken lady makes it personal showing her scars saying, YOU and YOUR LIES, did this, grown men and women break down crying apologizing saying they did into know. Than they become willing to learn the truth. I have yet to hear one of them make an anti gun statement afterwards. We do not have to sink to their level. Truth, honor and integrity does over come their deceit and spin.
    Last edited by LongRider; October 6th, 2007 at 01:55 PM.

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    Member Array Protect's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Why are these things rarely up to date?

    Folks go through the trouble of researching and writing these items but then they let them go stale for years or even as in the last thread like this a decade or more.
    Keep this stuff updated year to year as otherwise it loses relevancy and if/when shown to an anti would be seen as less than fact filled because the facts aren't up to date.

    This information is circa 2004 and my calendar right now is indicating it's 2007.

    - Janq
    Do you know of any more recent studies that could be quoted?
    Does the age of the data cause it to be irrelevant?
    Has human nature changed in the last Millennium?
    Has right and wrong changed?
    "When a man attempts to deal with me by force, I answer himóby force.
    "... No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had the right to choose: his own." -John Galt, Atlas Shrugged

  16. #15
    Distinguished Member Array Colin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
    Another very useful document is the Harvard study:

    http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/...useronline.pdf

    "This Article will not discuss the defensive use of firearms beyond making the following observations: while there is a great deal of controversy about the subject, it is a misleading controversy in which anti‐gun advocatesʹ deep ethical or moral objections to civilian self‐defense are presented in the guise of empirical argument. The empirical evidence unquestionably establishes that gun ownership by prospective victims not only allows them to resist criminal attack, but also deters violent criminals from attacking them in the first place."
    Waving the Canadian & Vancouver Flag here, Gary Mauser is a Prof here at Simon Fraser University and has been a great help to us gun owners and has appeared as a expert witness on firearm law cases also. Never had a chance to meet him personally, but I intend to buy him a beer when I do.

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