Concealed but not concealed VIRGINIA

This is a discussion on Concealed but not concealed VIRGINIA within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I wear business casual a lot while working out and about and carry @ 1800 with an IWB holster on the outside of my tucked ...

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Thread: Concealed but not concealed VIRGINIA

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array Savage's Avatar
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    Question Concealed but not concealed VIRGINIA

    I wear business casual a lot while working out and about and carry @ 1800 with an IWB holster on the outside of my tucked in shirt but still inside the pants. Normally I will pull part of my shirt tail out to cover the grip peeking out and sometimes I don't. Even when I am carrying casual with a T-shirt on a strong wind, bending or sitting/driving will cause my loose T-shirt to hop over and expose part of the weapon.
    I habitually pull my shirt over the exposed part but one bend or turn can expose it in many cases.
    I have my CCW permit and normally keep it completely hidden but sometimes it is impossible. There is nothing in the VA State Police firearm laws that reference this or printing.
    I can see myself being detained for 'flashing' but not arrested once my permit and ID is presented.
    Thoughts? Knowledge? Any lawyers or LEO's from VA that can help shed some light on this?

    My question to the forum is what consequences or lack of do you know of or foresee with a partially exposed weapon?

    Thanks

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    Since open carry is legal (and at times mandated) in VA, I don't think it will be a problem. When you go somewhere that it isn't legal to open carry you have to keep it hidden. Here in Oklahoma, your carry method wouldn't work.
    "The only people I like besides my wife and children are Marines."
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    Ex Member Array Savage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo_Four View Post
    Since open carry is legal (and at times mandated) in VA, I don't think it will be a problem. When you go somewhere that it isn't legal to open carry you have to keep it hidden. Here in Oklahoma, your carry method wouldn't work.
    Mandated? Got an example? Curious....

    I'm up to date on when to insure it's out of site. I'm just talking about getting out of the truck for a quick soda or stopping at the grocery store on the way home. This time next month it won't matter much due to the cold weather coming.

    Any VIRGINIAN's, LEO or Legal that can answer this one? I was in the 7-11 today when I heard an older lady in line behind me whisper to her friend, "he has a gun", in a shaky voice. This is what prompted the thread.

    Thanks!

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    Mandated would be when entering an eating establishment that serves alcohol. Stupid rule, but it is there.
    "The only people I like besides my wife and children are Marines."
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    Ex Member Array Savage's Avatar
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    Lightbulb DOH!

    DOH! I thought you meant a mandate TO CARRY~

    Bring on the lynch mob and the posse Cowboy Semper Fi! Don't see them calling on all citizens to take up arms any time soon. Probably wouldn't be a good time to be around if they do!

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    A mandate to carry would be a nice thing in some places- but not in all.

    But no, I was saying there is a mandate to open carry at times rather than to conceal your weapon like we have here.
    "The only people I like besides my wife and children are Marines."
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    Senior Member Array jofrdo's Avatar
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    It is legal to open carry in Virginia since there is absolutely no law specifying that it is not legal. It is illegal to carry a gun (concealed or open) in schools and into courthouses; also houses of worship when a religious worship service is in session. Printing through is not illegal; it simply tells people around you (if they're paying attention) that you're armed. Police may hassle you in some jurisdictions for open carrying, but that doesn't make it illegal. Others may ask to see the permit if you're printing through.

    I've only been approached by police once, and that was when I intended to be carrying concealed, but the shirt tail rode up over the grips. A customer at an Arby's saw it and reported me to an officer who was in the store for lunch. By then I had reconcealed it. He asked to see my CHP and that was the end of it. Then his partner sat near me so we could talk guns.

    Never does Virginia law mandate open carry; it just makes concealed carry illegal, even with a CHP, in any business establishment that sells alcohol by the single drink. This includes restaurants, bowling alleys, etc. Since there is no law making open carry illegal in those establishments, we have one of three choices:
    1) Leave the gun in the car, but why do that if we have other choices?
    2) Carry it concealed, breaking the law. I know, concealed is concealed and you'll probably never be discovered, but breaking the law can potentially make our whole CCW community look like scofflaws and criminals.
    3) Switch to open carry. I do it regularly and have never been approached by a single restaurant employee or manager or seen patrons running out of the door screaming; it's just not a problem.

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    Ex Member Array Savage's Avatar
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    Question

    As i said, I am up to speed on the VA laws as posted on their website. This question is not in the laws they have posted as this is not addressed.

    It is fairly hard to open carry a .45 using an IWB holster so that's out. I'm looking for a definitive it's OK or not OK to have it partially showing. That is considered concealed by State law. That is to have the weapon on your person in a manner to attempt to conceal it but enough of it can be seen to determine that it is a handgun (or weapon). Not a quote just my interpretation of the law.

    So when it pops out or I don't want to pull my dress shirt over the weapon's grip so I can access it, or I forget to put my coat on, etc.... What are the repercussions of this type of carry?

    I was hoping for a LEO's point of view, especially one from VA.
    Last edited by Savage; September 24th, 2007 at 11:06 PM. Reason: TE

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    Member Array Harold Fastwaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage View Post
    I was hoping for a LEO's point of view, especially one from VA.

    No you don't. VA cops do not know the laws like you think they do.

    It is legal to open carry as you know. There is no law against printing or flashing "wind gust blows up shirt and grip is seen (not brandishing)"

    There is no issue with it partially showing. I carry IWB everyday. When I enter restaurants I tuck my shirt behind my gun in my pants. This now becomes Open Carry and I am in the clear. You are open carrying as long as a person can tell you have a handgun on you by sight.

    Like I said, there is no repercussions for printing or grip peaking. Just don't make any dramatic moves to cover it up. You may find yourself with a police call on your hands.

    Continue to carry how you have. There is nothing to fear.

    Stay Safe

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    Member Array Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jofrdo View Post
    It is legal to open carry in Virginia since there is absolutely no law specifying that it is not legal. It is illegal to carry a gun (concealed or open) in schools and into courthouses; also houses of worship when a religious worship service is in session. Printing through is not illegal; it simply tells people around you (if they're paying attention) that you're armed. Police may hassle you in some jurisdictions for open carrying, but that doesn't make it illegal. Others may ask to see the permit if you're printing through.

    I've only been approached by police once, and that was when I intended to be carrying concealed, but the shirt tail rode up over the grips. A customer at an Arby's saw it and reported me to an officer who was in the store for lunch. By then I had reconcealed it. He asked to see my CHP and that was the end of it. Then his partner sat near me so we could talk guns.

    Never does Virginia law mandate open carry; it just makes concealed carry illegal, even with a CHP, in any business establishment that sells alcohol by the single drink. This includes restaurants, bowling alleys, etc. Since there is no law making open carry illegal in those establishments, we have one of three choices:
    1) Leave the gun in the car, but why do that if we have other choices?
    2) Carry it concealed, breaking the law. I know, concealed is concealed and you'll probably never be discovered, but breaking the law can potentially make our whole CCW community look like scofflaws and criminals.
    3) Switch to open carry. I do it regularly and have never been approached by a single restaurant employee or manager or seen patrons running out of the door screaming; it's just not a problem.
    So its ok to carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol as long as its open carry?

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    VIP Member Array NCHornet's Avatar
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    Yes Joey, but don't try this in Georgia.
    Back to the OP, There is nothing wrong with exposing your firearm although it is not the best tactical choice. Since nobody else has done so I have to question your mode of carry. You carry a 45 1911 type pistol in a IWB holster in the SOB position, not exactly the best position for a IWB holster and definetly not the best position if you are exposing the firearm. I really think you need to rethink your mode of carry.
    When Seconds Count, The Cops Are Just Minutes Away!!
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    Joey=yes

    If you can see from common observation that it is a gun (OWB or IWB), then it is "open carry"

    I occassionally open carry with an IWB--and do the VA "tuck"

    Mike in VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joey View Post
    So its ok to carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol as long as its open carry?
    In Virginia you may only use open carry to legally carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol for consumption on the premises. You absolutely SHOULD NOT drink any alcoholic beverages. Virginia does not have a standard level for drunk in public or carrying while drunk. That means that one drink and you may be arrested. Not saying you will, but you may. I am not aware of anyone being a test case yet.
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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joey View Post
    So its ok to carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol as long as its open carry?
    Yes, I do it ALL the time. I work and live along the route 7 corridor. I frequent restaurants from tysons corner all the way out to winchester and everything in between (Herndon, Sterling, Ashburn, Leesburg, Purcellville, Bluemont, Berryville etc...). MANY of the places I've stopped I have run into LEO's at some point while inside enjoying a good meal and have never had an adverse incident(on the contrary some good conversation was struck up by an LEO on 2 separate occassions). VA is still free...for now anyway.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

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    Member Array Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCHornet View Post
    Yes Joey, but don't try this in Georgia.
    Back to the OP, There is nothing wrong with exposing your firearm although it is not the best tactical choice. Since nobody else has done so I have to question your mode of carry. You carry a 45 1911 type pistol in a IWB holster in the SOB position, not exactly the best position for a IWB holster and definetly not the best position if you are exposing the firearm. I really think you need to rethink your mode of carry.
    I don't own a 1911 I carry a SA XD .40 in a galco OWB belt holster strong side or I carry it in my fobus paddle holster strong side it just depends on what I'm doing. I too agree about SOB carry I have never tried to carry that way to risky if you fall. I did check the Ga. laws about restaurants that serve alcohol and you can not carry open or concealed that ok maybe that will change someday until then I'll just have to leave it in the car.

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