Utah says "No More" to Permits for Foreigners

This is a discussion on Utah says "No More" to Permits for Foreigners within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Miggy Al Qeada MS 13 Hezbollah Russian Mafia Mexican Drug Dealers Foreigners that deserve to be given guns without any background checks ...

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Thread: Utah says "No More" to Permits for Foreigners

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array Fragman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    Al Qeada
    MS 13
    Hezbollah
    Russian Mafia
    Mexican Drug Dealers

    Foreigners that deserve to be given guns without any background checks whatsoever.

    While you are at it, please bring the Poor abused Gitmo prisioners to the Mainland so they can post bail and live in a halfway house near you and open the borders to anybody who wants to come in.

    Imagine any of the above acquiring guns freely and then commiting mass murder. Then imagine that it was found out that they all had permits that DID NOT covered a background check? Lots of foof for the Bradys!
    There HAS to be some sort of way & control. We cannot just give guns to anybody that requests them without covering our back or we will be commiting suicide with our rights. Public backslash would be so great that the Second Amendment would be buried deep and we all end up without guns
    There are American drug dealers too. American Al Qeada members. I am guessing the American born Mafia members are OK by you? The tiniest percentage of visitors belong to any of the groups you describe. By your logic, no American should be allowed a gun either in case one of them is a drug dealer, terrorist, gang member or whatever.

    Miggy, me old china, you always make a lot of sense in your posts, but not in this case.

    Maybe we are misunderstanding each other. I'm not saying there should be no background checks. What I take issue with is that anyone who says that gun possesion is dictated by where you were born. That person is an Anti. Period.

    But I should point out that many of the visitors here HAVE been through background checks and extensive ones at that.

    There are also many countries out there who quite simply do not keep any information on its citizens in their police/law enforcement computers if they have no criminal history.

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  3. #47
    Senior Member Array Fragman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fed View Post
    Some people's brains aren't wired corectly. It's not their fault, they were born that way. Faulty reasoning abilities.
    Whats that got to do with foreigners? Surely you're not saying that foreigners are not wired correctly?

  4. #48
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    Gentlemen, if you think we are out of the woods politically and PR wise regarding our gun right you are sorely mistaken. Like anybody else, I would love to see all 20K gun laws brought to four or five but it is NOT gonna happen at once and we NEED public support to achive such goal in the long term it will take to realize.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

  5. #49
    Member Array ttpete's Avatar
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    Philosophies aside, if a person's history can't be checked, how can that person be issued a carry permit? We, as citizens, submit to a records check. Why should it be any different for a foreigner? He could have been a career criminal in his own country, but since that country has no provision for sharing information, it wouldn't show up here.
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    Opinions expressed here are based upon Michigan state law ONLY. Other state laws may differ. Know and observe your local laws.

  6. #50
    Senior Member Array Fragman's Avatar
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    I think most people are in agreement that you should be able to check the persons background. But this thread quickly went to a citizen/non citizen debate. Thats where the forum seems to be split.

    My point is simple. If you think it is OK to deny someone the right to defend themselves SOLELY because they happened to be born a few yards further north than you, then you are an anti. People are people. there are good people and bad people, but the color of their passport has little to do with it.

    Lets face it, Americans are the sons and daughters of immigrants. They had the right to defend themselves too.

  7. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fragman View Post
    There are American drug dealers too. American Al Qeada members. I am guessing the American born Mafia members are OK by you? The tiniest percentage of visitors belong to any of the groups you describe. By your logic, no American should be allowed a gun either in case one of them is a drug dealer, terrorist, gang member or whatever.
    And by your logic, the USA should be an open borders country. If we should allow them unrestricted access to guns, we should allow them unrestricted access to everything including the right to vote.
    ttpete already said it, if we must have our backgrounds checked, how come theirs shouldn't be touched? You are thinking that all countries keep records with the same dedicattion and impartiality as here and you are sorely mistaken.

    Again, it is not of question of phylosophical digestion of the Second Amendment but a question of perception for the rest of the country regarding the issuances of a carry permit. To issue a permit without a proper background check casts a suspicious light on ALL permits issued. You want reciprocity to end among states? You want a Justice Department intervention because a State Office is issuing permits to persons that might be dangerous ? And yes, maybe a very few or none are, but one might and it will bring the whole thing down.

    If a country can demosntrate that they have a secure and reliable system of background checks then I am for issuance of a permit. Otherwise forget it! We are having enough troubles with the Antis and surely as heck we don't need to provide them ammunition in the form of news headlines : Gun Groups Reject proper background check for foreigners. or Foreigner Mass Murderer issued permit without proper background check. Concerns raised went ignored under pressure by gun groups. Congress set to investigate.

    Ours is a war of attrition, we must fight it smart.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

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