MTSU Concealed Carry--Student Leaders Vote Against Gun Resolution

This is a discussion on MTSU Concealed Carry--Student Leaders Vote Against Gun Resolution within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=7171764 "MURFREESBORO, Tenn. (AP) -- Student leaders at Middle Tennessee State University voted 23-4 against a resolution asking that people with gun permits be allowed ...

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Thread: MTSU Concealed Carry--Student Leaders Vote Against Gun Resolution

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    MTSU Concealed Carry--Student Leaders Vote Against Gun Resolution

    http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=7171764

    "MURFREESBORO, Tenn. (AP) -- Student leaders at Middle Tennessee State University voted 23-4 against a resolution asking that people with gun permits be allowed to carry firearms on campus.

    The resolution heard by the Student Government Association Thursday came just a little over a week after a student was violently attacked inside a dorm room.

    The student newspaper Sidelines reports that the Student Defense Resolution asked the school to petition the Tennessee General Assembly in favor of allowing faculty, students and staff of MTSU who have permits to carry guns on campus.

    State law currently prohibits carrying a weapon on school property.

    (Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)"



    I am not surprised that this decision was reached, but I am saddened by it. I wonder to what extent these young people (and school administrators and our legislators) will feel any culpability if, heaven forbid, lives are lost which students with valid Handgun Carry Permits could have saved?

    They will probably feel none at all. I am not certain that they will be correct.

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    Member Array Harold Fastwaker's Avatar
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    It doesn't surprise me at all. Schools will be the last place to allow carrying of firearms.




    lives are lost which students with valid Handgun Carry Permits could have saved
    I do not agree with that statement though. Pretty much every gun carrier I have met in person or read their opinion on a forum takes this stance. Honestly, there is no truth to hold that. Don't get me wrong, as a college student myself I would LOVE to be able to legally carry while in class. However, a few CC people on campus will not stop a fight or any event. Heck, pretty much everyone on here took the stance that if they were at VT they would hold up in their room drawn on the door. Maybe one person said they would go in search.

    We carry to protect ourselves, not police whatever building we are in at the time. If a group of people are yelling "FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT" while running down the hall I am not going to give chase. Nor will I come charging out of my classroom/dorm room with my gun drawn to stop it.

    My point here is the fact that 100 people carrying on a 20,000 person campus will not stop anything from happening. What it will do is give 100 people the ability to defend themselves. (And that right there is a prime example why we should be able to. However, the college liberals feel that if I draw, everyone in a 200 yard radius will die. In their eyes I probably don't even have to pull the trigger. )

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    Member Array hayley's Avatar
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    Student "leaders"? This shouldn't be an SGA issue. I'll bet a general student referendum would have a very different result.

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    The sheep decided they are frightenned by sheep dogs so they are going to ignore the wolves...

    Fine.

    I hope that those students who are concerned about their safety act in the manner most appropriate. If that includes the acrrying of a weapon I am not going to condemn them for it and hope they have the sense to make certian not to interfere with any rampage shooters not coming directly towards them.

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    We have failed to properly raise the next generation.

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    I am graduate of MTSU. I live and work less than a mile from campus and I am not surprised at the decision. There are too many liberal tree hugging hippies and professors living in an academic environment that are unaware of the world around them.

    The attack that happened last week in a dorm room involved a pill popping, alcohol abusing freshman male who beat the sh*% out of his girlfriend for some unknown reason. If it had been a planned attack or a multiple shooting the outcome of the vote may have been different. It is a shame that it takes a large act of violence to wake up the liberals.

    I will say that the vote will not affect anything I do or have been doing on or around campus.

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    I had been following it in the news, but I'm not surprised of the outcome. The students are more afraid of armed, law-abiding citizens instead of muggers, rapists and murders, because guns are scary.

    This proved 23 out of 27 people feel safer with old, empty canisters of pepper spray bobbing somewhere at the bottom of their handbags, and security who may be at the other end of the block when an incident happens.

    I'm going to raise my kids to be one of those four, not one of the 23.
    "Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa

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    As in much politics...what is not known is how the resolution was crafted, what background information was presented, what discussion or research was allowed. A 23-4 vote seems pretty resolute...not even close.

    I think the biggest concern is creating a quasi-police force versus the concept of self-defense. You will never get it passed if the perception exists that armed students will act as a quasi-police force.

    Rick

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    Actually this was not bad! 15% of them appear to think like people who rationally consider the dangers in this world and consider it a personal responsibility to ensure one's own safety.

    I would have thought it would be more like 5%...

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    Ron
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold Fastwaker View Post
    It doesn't surprise me at all. Schools will be the last place to allow carrying of firearms.






    I do not agree with that statement though. Pretty much every gun carrier I have met in person or read their opinion on a forum takes this stance. Honestly, there is no truth to hold that. Don't get me wrong, as a college student myself I would LOVE to be able to legally carry while in class. However, a few CC people on campus will not stop a fight or any event. Heck, pretty much everyone on here took the stance that if they were at VT they would hold up in their room drawn on the door. Maybe one person said they would go in search.

    We carry to protect ourselves, not police whatever building we are in at the time. If a group of people are yelling "FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT" while running down the hall I am not going to give chase. Nor will I come charging out of my classroom/dorm room with my gun drawn to stop it.

    My point here is the fact that 100 people carrying on a 20,000 person campus will not stop anything from happening. What it will do is give 100 people the ability to defend themselves. (And that right there is a prime example why we should be able to. However, the college liberals feel that if I draw, everyone in a 200 yard radius will die. In their eyes I probably don't even have to pull the trigger. )
    Well, I agree with you I would not go charging out of my classroom with gun drawn searching out the gunman. But, at Virginia Tech, if I recalll correctly, the gunman went from classroom to classroom killing people he found in the classrooms. In fact, the hero professor, who was a holocaust survivor, who held off the gunman at the door to his classroom so that his students could escape, probably could have been saved along with students in other classrooms who were lined up and killed, if one person in those classrooms had been lawfullly armed.

    Ron
    "It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."

    J. R. R. Tolkien

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Well, I agree with you I would not go charging out of my classroom with gun drawn searching out the gunman. But, at Virginia Tech, if I recalll correctly, the gunman went from classroom to classroom killing people he found in the classrooms. In fact, the hero professor, who was a holocaust survivor, who held off the gunman at the door to his classroom so that his students could escape, probably could have been saved along with students in other classrooms who were lined up and killed, if one person in those classrooms had been lawfullly armed.

    Ron
    That is my thinking as well. And, of course, studies have shown (e.g., John Lott's) that the only measure which lowers the incidence of mass shootings is concealed carry. Criminals don't know who is armed--the fact that anyone can carry renders their attempted "big splash" less likely to succeed, hence they are deterred to a greater extent.

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    Member Array Harold Fastwaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Well, I agree with you I would not go charging out of my classroom with gun drawn searching out the gunman. But, at Virginia Tech, if I recalll correctly, the gunman went from classroom to classroom killing people he found in the classrooms. In fact, the hero professor, who was a holocaust survivor, who held off the gunman at the door to his classroom so that his students could escape, probably could have been saved along with students in other classrooms who were lined up and killed, if one person in those classrooms had been lawfullly armed.

    Ron
    I understand what you are saying here. But it still goes with my first post. If some of the students are carrying then its like playing a game of Press Your Luck "Big Money No Whammies". The gunman would probably have a 1 in 20 chance of walking into a classroom with someone carrying. Thats why I am saying, while we CAN do something while carrying. We may not actually do anything if the gunman doesn't come to our area.

    But like I said in my first post, I would rather be that 100 who can defend themselves properly than the other 19,900 who cant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold Fastwaker View Post
    The gunman would probably have a 1 in 20 chance of walking into a classroom with someone carrying. Thats why I am saying, while we CAN do something while carrying. We may not actually do anything if the gunman doesn't come to our area.
    First any argument about those with CCWs causing a bloodbath in the school are unfounded as has already been proven at countless shopping malls, sporting events, fairs, office buildings and other gatherrings of people where CCW is allowed. To argue such a point is groundless and has been disproven time and time again EVERY TIME the shall issue CCW issue comes up and passes in another state or city.

    For argument's sake we will say the 1 in 20 is correct.

    That means the gunman has a 1 in 20 chance of meeting armed if those students and faculty who qualify for a CCW are allowed to carry on campus.

    Banning carry on campus means the law abiding citizens who qualify for a CCW have a 0 in 100 chance of being able to effectively defend their lives. We will leave the defense techniques of Ninjas and Shaolin Monks aside here.

    I do not see why the law abiding citizen should be denied his right to effetive self defense because of the irrational fear of the uneducated (ie, "we can't have colored drink'n out of a fountain used by white folks! They'll give them the Sickle Cell!" type of nonsense) nor the minimal statistical chance of any one legally armed person being present to stop the massacre. It is NOT about stopping the attack, it about the right of the person to be able to RESIST. People may choose not to enact that right, just like you may decide not to vote. You should not though be able to tell someone they CANNOT exercise the right because of your irrational fears.

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    It is too bad that just once we could have a student pull out a gun and drop some attacker with a single shot in a situation like this. Maybe, (probably not), but maybe then some people would wake up. We often point to the story that happened in an Israeli school years ago as an example of why students and teachers should be allowed to carry but that is too long ago and too far away for most people to comprehend.
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    Quote Originally Posted by havegunjoe View Post
    It is too bad that just once we could have a student pull out a gun and drop some attacker with a single shot in a situation like this. Maybe, (probably not), but maybe then some people would wake up. We often point to the story that happened in an Israeli school years ago as an example of why students and teachers should be allowed to carry but that is too long ago and too far away for most people to comprehend.
    Doesn't matter, students have already used firearms to stop nut jobs on campus and it goes unreported by the mainstream and ignored. Appalaichan Law College (or App something) if I remember correctly.

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