Maybe I'm just bad at math....anybody think this is good?

Maybe I'm just bad at math....anybody think this is good?

This is a discussion on Maybe I'm just bad at math....anybody think this is good? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; At the University of Cincinnati, there are 81,359 people. This counts faculty, staff, students, undergrads, and postgrads. There are 2 branch campuses, and 1 college ...

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Thread: Maybe I'm just bad at math....anybody think this is good?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array jeep45238's Avatar
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    Maybe I'm just bad at math....anybody think this is good?

    At the University of Cincinnati, there are 81,359 people. This counts faculty, staff, students, undergrads, and postgrads. There are 2 branch campuses, and 1 college that's about 1.5 miles from main campus.

    There are less than 10 campus police officers according to a police officer during last winter quarter (6 according to him). He also admitted that they can't tell who belongs, who doesn't belong, and that it's up to the students to be responsible for their own safety.

    Assuming that .8% of UC's "population" carries (just like Ohio's population according to a few minutes of research), you get 650 people that probably have CHL's, but can't carry on the premises.

    Unless if they've hired a ton of extra police officers (which I doubt it, they haven't mentioned anything of the sort and I rarely see any, just like last year), each officer is responsible for 13,560 people.

    In America, there are 301,139,947 people according to the July 2007 estimate. There are approximately 87,000 sworn in LEO's (national law enforcement memorial fund). Each officer is responsible for 3,461 people.

    Is it right for colleges to expect college students (like myself) pay out the nose for an education, while only affording about a 1/4 of law enforcement to the campus as what is available to the outside world? And I'm denied the right to carry by state law (concealed carry) and university policy (concealed or open carry)?

    Just some numbers to think about Mr. Ferrara, just some numbers to think about....
    ~Mike F.
    http://www.ConcealedCampus.com
    http://www.a-human-right.com/
    "Quemadmoeum gladuis neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    That's pretty enlightening jeep. I wonder what the stats would work out to for VT? You never hear this mentioned do you?
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

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    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Well those numbers would be right if all of the students, faculty, staff, whomever, were actually on the campus all the time, or at one time. It has been a couple of decades since I was in college, but I can't remember any time when everyone was there at the same time.

    Kind like traffic counts, if 10,000 cars pass a given point in a given day, that isn't the same as if they all tried to get there at the same time.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  4. #4
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    In the past, Campus Security at most universities was a joke. I'd hope they get the message, and I really hope the CC laws on campus get changed.


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  5. #5
    VIP Member Array pogo2's Avatar
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    Are the UC campus cops even armed?

    At some universities the campus police are not even armed, so their ability to protect students is quite limited. I don't know if the UC cops are armed or not.

    Here is an article regarding the recent resignation of the chief of the campus police at San Francisco Community College. He could not get permission to arm his officers, and quit over the issue:

    Campus police chief quits over unarmed officers

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array Fragman's Avatar
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    More officers

    You are making the assumption that all the regular LEO are not 'responsible' for the members of UC. That isn't the case. So, yes, I would say your math is flawed in so far as it is being selective with its numbers.

    Also, as another poster has pointed out, not everyone is on campus at the same time.

    Besides, most people here are not counting on LEO to protect them. But of course, they probably don't have to deal with Gun Free 'Safe' (for the criminal anyway) zones.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array jeep45238's Avatar
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    Fragman, these aren't official, nor am I saying that officers have a duty to protect life (we all know the supreme courts rulings on that).

    I'm stuck on campus. I'm banned by state law and campus policy from having my gun on me. In that situation, where you take away my ability to protect myself, you had better be stepping up to the plate to protect me. So yes, everybody on campus is depending on the PD for defense, like it or not, legal or not.

    The numbers I just did a quick google on, I never said they were accurate, nor scientific. It was purely a 3 minute curiosity deal on my side. Either way you want to cut it, I rarely see more than "maybe" one officer a week, max on campus, and I'm all over on campus. Imagine the criminal's view of it.
    ~Mike F.
    http://www.ConcealedCampus.com
    http://www.a-human-right.com/
    "Quemadmoeum gladuis neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Something to look into is if any other agencies have concurrent jurisdiction. The University of Maryland in College Park, Maryland has their own police department, but they also have Prince George's county police, and Maryland state police. Of course when the Terps win big and there are celebrations in the streets, you will also find the P.G. Sheriffs office out in force and also there are several municipalities that will provide a mutual aid response.

  9. #9
    Member Array Biloxi Bersa's Avatar
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    Bad at math?

    Apparently. According to UC's website, total enrollment is 35, 527 and that includes under-grads, grads, part-time and full-time and 2900 on-campus residents, inclusive. That would mean almost 46K in faculty, staff, etc.

    The university website lists total faculty and staff at 8620.

    I don't think UCLA, Michigan, Tennessee or Ohio State has 81K students.

    Gotta believe that the professionals running the school have an "adequate" amount of public safety personnal on site. Granted, most communities in this country, mine included, are short-handed when it comes to police, fire and EMS.

    Check your numbers and then relax.
    Last edited by Biloxi Bersa; October 5th, 2007 at 09:34 PM.

  10. #10
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    I think there are more than 10 UC officers. I personally know 5, and the full time officers are complimented by a whole lot of part timers. I know on Friday nights the UC hospital has at least 5 just there.
    Plus CPD and HCSO is on campus as well. I'd double check those numbers before you go to bat with him.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  11. #11
    Member Array Biloxi Bersa's Avatar
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    I guess you're saying 8% of the population is the average carry stat. 8% of your number would be 6500, not 650.

    The decimal in front of the percentage makes me guess you meant eight percent.

    If it is 8%, then that number based on the enrollment plus staff of UC, according to their website would be over 3500 CHL on campus.

    By the way, their website, by my count, lists over 94 personnel among their campuses and medical center.

    Did you 'uh, mention that you were paying for an education?

  12. #12
    Member Array American Pit Bull's Avatar
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    I thought that U of C's enrollment was less than half of that...
    Does that mean that there is at least one teacher or administrative staffer for every student?

  13. #13
    Member Array Biloxi Bersa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeep45238 View Post
    Fragman, these aren't official, nor am I saying that officers have a duty to protect life (we all know the supreme courts rulings on that).

    I'm stuck on campus. I'm banned by state law and campus policy from having my gun on me. In that situation, where you take away my ability to protect myself, you had better be stepping up to the plate to protect me. So yes, everybody on campus is depending on the PD for defense, like it or not, legal or not.

    The numbers I just did a quick google on, I never said they were accurate, nor scientific. It was purely a 3 minute curiosity deal on my side. Either way you want to cut it, I rarely see more than "maybe" one officer a week, max on campus, and I'm all over on campus. Imagine the criminal's view of it.
    Based on your original post, you seemed willing to challange the head public safety dude, Mr. Ferrera.

    What's the criminal looking to commit a premeditated crime doing? He's probably paying a lot more attention to LE than coeds.

  14. #14
    Distinguished Member Array P7fanatic's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Biloxi Bersa View Post
    Gotta believe that the professionals running the school have an "adequate" amount of public safety personnal on site. Granted, most communities in this country, mine included, are short-handed when it comes to police, fire and EMS.
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  15. #15
    Senior Member Array jeep45238's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biloxi Bersa View Post
    I guess you're saying 8% of the population is the average carry stat. 8% of your number would be 6500, not 650.

    The decimal in front of the percentage makes me guess you meant eight percent.

    If it is 8%, then that number based on the enrollment plus staff of UC, according to their website would be over 3500 CHL on campus.

    By the way, their website, by my count, lists over 94 personnel among their campuses and medical center.

    Did you 'uh, mention that you were paying for an education?
    .8% of Ohio's population has a license to carry. point 8 percent. The number of people on campus includes branch campuses, and facilities off main campus, and all students from freshmen to grad students, faculty, and staff.

    I'm not willing to go to bad off of anything that I looked up on google with anybody. Then again, it was on the interweb, so it must be true......
    ~Mike F.
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    http://www.a-human-right.com/
    "Quemadmoeum gladuis neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."

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