had an interesting encounter with an LEO... - Page 4

had an interesting encounter with an LEO...

This is a discussion on had an interesting encounter with an LEO... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Someone once asked me what my deffinition of happiness was..after some thought, for me, happiness is "No Hassels"...a cop asks me for my ID, and ...

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 73

Thread: had an interesting encounter with an LEO...

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array DrLewall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Drakes Creek, AR
    Posts
    958
    Someone once asked me what my deffinition of happiness was..after some thought, for me, happiness is "No Hassels"...a cop asks me for my ID, and I refuse, my happiness of no hassels has just come to an end.
    Last edited by JD; April 4th, 2008 at 07:06 PM. Reason: Removed bold font.


  2. #47
    Member Array taggart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Isle of Lucy
    Posts
    197
    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    PJ, friesepferd is a woman.
    Hi, Limatunes!
    I'm not questioning you and I'm sure I've missed it, but where does it say friesepferd is a woman? That really DOES change the jist of the story, doesn't it?
    Just curious!
    Taggart Snyder
    Man about town...

  3. #48
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    4,883
    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    Well, regardless of whether it's legal for the cop to do, I want to ask you why you said that declining to give your ID is "something [you are] not willing to do". Is it because of what I stated, that even though it's your right, you recognize that the cop might very well hold your assertion of your right against you, and use it as his personal justification for bringing every power that he legally has to bear against you? Even if it's just deciding not to let you go with a warning whereas he might have. Don't try to convince me, people, that cops don't get snippy with civvies who "know their rights," even the ones who assert them politely. I've read too many of those, "Are you gonna try to tell me the law?!" posts.
    I will try to keep this simple.

    1. Texas law requires that if your asked for ID by a sworn peace officer, you must provide them your CHL permit (if your carrying a concealed weapon) and Drivers License. I am not going to loose my license over a simple request.

    2. Courtesy. I expect people to be courteous when they are in my office, if they are not, they get fired as a client. LEO's are public servants, they are paid to enforce the law. I see no reason why I should to out of my way to make their job harder just to prove a point.

    3. Time. Simply if your going to be an a** about things, the LEO is probably going to take up more of your time. He is getting paid either way. I have much better things to do than get in a ******* contest with a LEO.

    Those are the three main reasons, I could sit here and give you many more, but I will refer to number 3, the time issue.

    Yes your right, LEO's sometimes get snippy, as to people in every walk of life. Even us upstanding CHL holders get snippy. But common sense has taught me long ago, there are times and places for everything.

    When I was in my early 20's I asked a Sheriff in Arkansas for his name and badge number after he threw a cigarette butt on the ground and I told him he was littering, this was after he gave me and two buddies tickets for littering ourselves. Of course our littering was the casing of a white phosporous flare that we shot off over Lake Greeson. We had already paid our fine, so technically we were done, but that almost cost me a night in the Murfressboro jail for trying to prove a point. If I were him today, that cocky 20 something year old would probably have been in the car on his way to jail. Luckily he was a better man than I am now.

    Now that I am older and hopefully wiser, it just isn't worth being a pain in the a**, just to prove a point, especially when it is something as simple as providing an ID.
    Last edited by Scott; October 10th, 2007 at 09:23 PM. Reason: fixed quote tags
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
    www.ddchl.com
    Texas CHL Instructor
    Texas Hunter Education Instructor
    NRA Instructor

  4. #49
    Senior Moderator
    Array limatunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    4,246
    Quote Originally Posted by taggart View Post
    Hi, Limatunes!
    I'm not questioning you and I'm sure I've missed it, but where does it say friesepferd is a woman? That really DOES change the jist of the story, doesn't it?
    Just curious!
    In this thread for one.


  5. #50
    Distinguished Member Array BIG E's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    KY
    Posts
    1,443
    Very well done indeed!
    Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft!

    -- Theodore Roosevelt --

  6. #51
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    south Florida
    Posts
    3,168
    Farronwolf, I have never been even close to discourteous with a police officer when stopped.

    But I want to know why you might think it's discourteous to assert your rights if stopped.

    I fully understand the situation in Texas, and that if you're stopped and don't inform the cop you're carrying, and he finds out, you've broken the law there. (It's not a law I agree with, but it's still a law that can trap you.)

    I'm talking about someone being asked for ID even though he is a back seat passenger, not the driver. My imagining is that once the cop has made the request, he no longer really regards it as a request, and he expects compliance. I've read of too many cases of "contempt of cop," as far as the cop considers it, and how they come down with both feet on those who simply assert what it is their right to assert. That's bad news.

  7. #52
    Member Array johnbrodie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    24

  8. #53
    Senior Member Array bzdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Seattle(ish), WA
    Posts
    749
    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    But I want to know why you might think it's discourteous to assert your rights if stopped.
    I think this just comes down to the idea that there is a time and a place for everything. You want to make a point about not providing ID where you are legally not required to? Fine (see Michael Righi story). But it might not be the optimal time to do so while carrying.

    -john

  9. #54
    Member Array ttpete's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Mich
    Posts
    333
    The means of identification one must use is determined by circumstances. If I'm driving, I need to carry a driver's license. If I'm carrying, I need my CPL. But, if I'm out for a walk, not carrying, I don't need to carry ANY ID if I so choose. I can be required to identify myself verbally if asked by an officer. And he can conduct a pat down if he feels it necessary. We, in this country, have never had to carry "papers" or "identity cards". We are not required to account for our whereabouts or our destinations. There are those who want to change this. They would take away our rights in order to have the illusion of security. Fear them. And fight them. Be heard by your legislators.
    NRA Benefactor member
    Michigan Antique Arms Collectors life member
    Ohio Gun Collectors member

    Opinions expressed here are based upon Michigan state law ONLY. Other state laws may differ. Know and observe your local laws.

  10. #55
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    2,736
    Quote Originally Posted by bzdog View Post
    I think this just comes down to the idea that there is a time and a place for everything. You want to make a point about not providing ID where you are legally not required to? Fine (see Michael Righi story). But it might not be the optimal time to do so while carrying.

    -john
    I read that Michael Righi story and all I could think of is this guy is acting like a jerk. Yes, I believe in standing up for principles When The Principle Means Something. In his case, it is virtually no different to have the checkout clerk verify the merchandise and the payment and another guy at the door validate both the employee and the consumer. Does he complain when the clerk counts his money because HE KNOWS he gave the correct amount?

    Then he completely wasted taxpayer money by his obstinence with the police officer. For what? Absolutely nothing. Not only did he waste montary resources but he prevented an officer from directing his attention to crime.

    Bottom line: it costs you nothing to comply with simple and innocuous requests from law enforcement. You are not forfeiting rights; you are not making a statement; you are simply being a jerk. In cases like this, being right is actually doing the wrong thing.

  11. #56
    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,681
    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    I read that Michael Righi story and all I could think of is this guy is acting like a jerk. Yes, I believe in standing up for principles When The Principle Means Something. In his case, it is virtually no different to have the checkout clerk verify the merchandise and the payment and another guy at the door validate both the employee and the consumer. Does he complain when the clerk counts his money because HE KNOWS he gave the correct amount?

    Then he completely wasted taxpayer money by his obstinence with the police officer. For what? Absolutely nothing. Not only did he waste montary resources but he prevented an officer from directing his attention to crime.

    Bottom line: it costs you nothing to comply with simple and innocuous requests from law enforcement. You are not forfeiting rights; you are not making a statement; you are simply being a jerk. In cases like this, being right is actually doing the wrong thing.
    Ditto...mountain out of a mole hill...I for one want the cops to check for IDs...regardless. One of the biggest ways they catch BGs, illegals, outstanding warrants...to me that trumps my concern for my "rights" to say no because I fear not.

    Rick

  12. #57
    Senior Member Array bzdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Seattle(ish), WA
    Posts
    749
    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    I read that Michael Righi story and all I could think of is this guy is acting like a jerk. Yes, I believe in standing up for principles When The Principle Means Something. In his case, it is virtually no different to have the checkout clerk verify the merchandise and the payment and another guy at the door validate both the employee and the consumer. Does he complain when the clerk counts his money because HE KNOWS he gave the correct amount?

    Then he completely wasted taxpayer money by his obstinence with the police officer. For what? Absolutely nothing. Not only did he waste montary resources but he prevented an officer from directing his attention to crime.

    Bottom line: it costs you nothing to comply with simple and innocuous requests from law enforcement. You are not forfeiting rights; you are not making a statement; you are simply being a jerk. In cases like this, being right is actually doing the wrong thing.
    Well, I respectfully disagree.

    I think that our rights must be exercised to be retained, and I think you are pretty much going to come off like a jerk while doing so. (Why say 'no' to a car search if you have nothing to hide?)

    I admire people who try to keep these rights alive. They tend to be very inconvenienced for their trouble.

    But, we are getting very off topic here, and based on the discussion of the Righi incident elsewhere, I suspect we aren't going to come to consensus anytime soon.

    Probably just best to say we agree to disagree.

    My main point is that if you are going to make an issue of something, set it up to be safe, clear cut and only about the issue at hand. And be willing to be inconvenienced.

    -john

  13. #58
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    2,736
    Quote Originally Posted by bzdog View Post
    I think that our rights must be exercised to be retained, and I think you are pretty much going to come off like a jerk while doing so.
    I agree that this is off topic but I will take the last word (unless you want it.)

    I think our rights must be maliciously violated before there is a chance they will be removed. Submitting to a [unconstitutional] search is very different than providing identification to LEO or showing a receipt to loss prevention.

  14. #59
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    4,883
    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    But I want to know why you might think it's discourteous to assert your rights if stopped.

    I'm talking about someone being asked for ID even though he is a back seat passenger, not the driver.
    Because I think it is discourteous, plain and simple. If I am asked for ID regardless if I am in the back of the vehicle or walking down the street by a sworn peace officer in Texas, or any other state for that matter. I will provide my ID. I have nothing to loose. That is a simple request, takes 10 seconds to get out wallet and ID myself and move along. I have nothing to gain by making his job any more difficult. You do as you see fit. Bet you a 100 bucks I will be gone from there long before you get done with the hassle, from trying to prove a point.

    Both me and the officer have much better things to do.

    I haven't read any articles about contempt of cop, don't go looking for them personally. Seen a video or two I think, and there was a post here a while ago about it. For those "many" articles you have seen about contempt of cop, there are literally hundreds of thousands of times for each of those that LEO's do their job the right way and everyone goes about their business. That is kinda like equating the lady that pulled the gun on the kids at the bus stop to all the rest of us here in this forum. Just because there is one bad apple out there doesn't mean you need to think of everyone in that group as a bad apple, whether it is a LEO or a CHL holder.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
    www.ddchl.com
    Texas CHL Instructor
    Texas Hunter Education Instructor
    NRA Instructor

  15. #60
    Lead Moderator
    Array rocky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    16,215
    FYI, depending on the state you may be legally obligated to provide ID or be subject to detention till your identity can be determined. Last I checked , it was so in MI.
    You can assert your right as you see fit, just remember , it not may be worth the hassle to do so.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. An interesting article about the aftermath of a deadly force encounter
    By MinistrMalic in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: March 28th, 2011, 10:31 PM
  2. Interesting OC Encounter in New Mexico
    By KoriBustard in forum Open Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: March 11th, 2011, 11:03 AM
  3. Interesting encounter at Wal-mart today...
    By KeepingPiece in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: December 5th, 2010, 02:32 AM
  4. Interesting LEO Encounter at the Gun Show Today
    By CenterOfMass in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: May 17th, 2010, 10:02 AM
  5. Interesting LEO encounter today
    By Daddy Warcrimes in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: July 1st, 2007, 08:40 PM

Search tags for this page

concealed carry encounters

,

cop encounter woman

,

provide id to leo

Click on a term to search for related topics.