had an interesting encounter with an LEO... - Page 5

had an interesting encounter with an LEO...

This is a discussion on had an interesting encounter with an LEO... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Excellent. I appreciate you sharing that with all of the readers, I enjoyed it....

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  1. #61
    Senior Member Array Rossman's Avatar
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    Excellent. I appreciate you sharing that with all of the readers, I enjoyed it.


  2. #62
    VIP Member Array friesepferd's Avatar
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    was kind of surprised at where this conversation went. and it was interesting.
    my 2 cents:
    i completely understand why the LEO asked for all of our IDs and such.
    When he first approached the car he seemed, not nervous, but suspecious a little. he shined his light in the windows and such. wanted to make sure nothing was out of place. this may have had to do with the reason he pulled us over- not being able to see the license plate.
    that and combo of girl in the back seat, i respect him for being cautious. im sure here an LEO can ask for everyones ID. I have heard it happen to many people.
    he handled everything very professional as i said.
    he was cautious the whole time (i know someone mentioned that by the assumption that the gun was in my bag he was at risk- he had his wits about him.)
    Thank you to the 2 ppl who actually answered my question about the little card im thinking of making up. i like the last persons suggestion of making it more basic. that sounds good to me and i think ill do that before the next time i go downstate.
    In my opinion its always better to be as helpful as possible to law officers. I have no problem giving them any info they want (unless of course its a situation where it could be used against me- such as questioning after a possible "crime")
    At least in MI, where as soon as they run your driver lecense they know u have your CPL, i highly suggest you tell them about it even if you arnt carrying. i know someone who recently was in that situation and didnt mention it and the cop was kinda mad. wont get into that story tho.
    i am not for having to show your CPL to a LEO, but I understand the reasoning. The last thing I want to happen is for one to notice that I am carrying and me not have told him.
    anyways. you all have valid arguments and i appreciate your input.

  3. #63
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Bottom line: it costs you nothing to comply with simple and innocuous requests from law enforcement. You are not forfeiting rights; you are not making a statement; you are simply being a jerk. In cases like this, being right is actually doing the wrong thing.

    What I think a person is doing when he just goes along with these "simple and innocuous" requests is he is building a bank of experience with the law enforcement community.

    They end up with a growing stockpile of experiences where people who had the right to decline the request did not opt to do so. They begin to think that unquestioning compliance with all of their requests--even those things that they don't have the power to compel--is the norm. So when someone does assert his right to decline the request (and does nothing wrong by doing so) he is viewed by the cops as suspicious, dangerous, what have you.

    The next thing you know, anyone refusing to comply with non-compulsory requests is regarded as so suspicious that they get the work-over every time. Soon enough, NO ONE IS WILLING to assert his rights because he "knows what happens when you do." The "chilling effect" has taken place, and if you have a right that you're afraid to assert, in the practical sense you don't HAVE that right anymore.

  4. #64
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrLewall View Post
    Someone once asked me what my deffinition of happiness was..after some thought, for me, happiness is "No Hassels"...a cop asks me for my ID, and I refuse, my happiness of no hassels has just come to an end.
    Where do you draw the line?

    For the record, my definition of happiness is not congruent with yours. I don't care to try to pin down my definition but that's not the crux of this discussion anyway.

    I am curious about to what degree you will "allow" intrusion on your rights in order to stave off "hassle". As an example, if you were pulled over for 5 mph over the limit, and had been steady in your lane with no sign of intoxicated driving, would you be willing to blow into a breathalyzer even though there is NO probable cause, just because you know that a cop will "hassle" you if you decline?

    I'm interested in the limits, here.

  5. #65
    Member Array CelticWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by friesepferd View Post
    was kind of surprised at where this conversation went. and it was interesting.
    my 2 cents:
    i completely understand why the LEO asked for all of our IDs and such.
    When he first approached the car he seemed, not nervous, but suspecious a little. he shined his light in the windows and such. wanted to make sure nothing was out of place. this may have had to do with the reason he pulled us over- not being able to see the license plate.
    that and combo of girl in the back seat, i respect him for being cautious. im sure here an LEO can ask for everyones ID. I have heard it happen to many people.
    he handled everything very professional as i said.
    he was cautious the whole time (i know someone mentioned that by the assumption that the gun was in my bag he was at risk- he had his wits about him.)
    Thank you to the 2 ppl who actually answered my question about the little card im thinking of making up. i like the last persons suggestion of making it more basic. that sounds good to me and i think ill do that before the next time i go downstate.
    In my opinion its always better to be as helpful as possible to law officers. I have no problem giving them any info they want (unless of course its a situation where it could be used against me- such as questioning after a possible "crime")
    At least in MI, where as soon as they run your driver lecense they know u have your CPL, i highly suggest you tell them about it even if you arnt carrying. i know someone who recently was in that situation and didnt mention it and the cop was kinda mad. wont get into that story tho.
    i am not for having to show your CPL to a LEO, but I understand the reasoning. The last thing I want to happen is for one to notice that I am carrying and me not have told him.
    anyways. you all have valid arguments and i appreciate your input.

    I heard they know as soon as they run your plate. As long as the vehicle is registered in your name. Can someone confirm?
    Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about seeking whom he may devour. 1 Peter 5:8


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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocky View Post
    FYI, depending on the state you may be legally obligated to provide ID or be subject to detention till your identity can be determined. Last I checked , it was so in MI.
    You can assert your right as you see fit, just remember , it not may be worth the hassle to do so.
    Do you have a reference for that? I'd be interested in the actual wording of the applicable statute. Linky?
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    Opinions expressed here are based upon Michigan state law ONLY. Other state laws may differ. Know and observe your local laws.

  7. #67
    VIP Member Array friesepferd's Avatar
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    yes they do know when they run your plate in MI.
    i dont own a car :( so this doesn't apply to me

  8. #68
    Senior Member Array bzdog's Avatar
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    Oh, and as an aside, you may wan to consider just how safe it is to ride with a group of people you don't know. Firearm or not, you are in a very vulnerable situation.

    -john

  9. #69
    VIP Member Array friesepferd's Avatar
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    i have thought about it and am aware that it is a vulnerable situation.
    what do i have to say about it? not much.
    i dont have much of a choice (besides not seeing my fiance for 3 months which i dont view as much of an option)
    i look into the ppl as much as i can before i go. I dont think I have ever gone with just one person or with just 2 ppl that were friends.
    its usually a car packed full of strangers (donno if that makes it better or worse).

  10. #70
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    What I think a person is doing when he just goes along with these "simple and innocuous" requests is he is building a bank of experience with the law enforcement community.

    They end up with a growing stockpile of experiences where people who had the right to decline the request did not opt to do so. They begin to think that unquestioning compliance with all of their requests--even those things that they don't have the power to compel--is the norm. So when someone does assert his right to decline the request (and does nothing wrong by doing so) he is viewed by the cops as suspicious, dangerous, what have you.

    The next thing you know, anyone refusing to comply with non-compulsory requests is regarded as so suspicious that they get the work-over every time. Soon enough, NO ONE IS WILLING to assert his rights because he "knows what happens when you do." The "chilling effect" has taken place, and if you have a right that you're afraid to assert, in the practical sense you don't HAVE that right anymore.
    Agreed, except the stockpile is already high which presents problems on a multitude of levels. I've been trying to stay out of this thread just so I don't get myself booted so I'll settle for this little agreement comment and be gone.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
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  11. #71
    Senior Member Array DrLewall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    Where do you draw the line?

    I am curious about to what degree you will "allow" intrusion on your rights in order to stave off "hassle". As an example, if you were pulled over for 5 mph over the limit, and had been steady in your lane with no sign of intoxicated driving, would you be willing to blow into a breathalyzer even though there is NO probable cause, just because you know that a cop will "hassle" you if you decline?

    I'm interested in the limits, here.
    Funny you should ask..I am not a drinker, got pulled over one night because the little town I have to drive thru to get home has a PD who thrives on the citations they write. This cop was bored as it was a little after 1am. He "accused" me of crossing the double yellow and weaving...again, he was bored and made this up as I never onced crossed the dbl yellow nor weaved. My wife on the other hand had been drinking and since I am her "designated" driver, she was up front with me and sure there was going to be a smell of alcohol in the car. The Officer approached, we greet and I hand him my paper work, minus the permit..he runs the info and comes back and asks me where my gun was, I said what gun..he says that since I have a permit then I have a gun in the car. I told him just because I have a permit does not mean that I have a gun in the car, and there was no gun in the car, if there had been, I would have answered his question, but he was insistant. We vollied back and forth for a bit and I won, ther was NO GUN in the car.

    He never asked to search and if he had, I would have told him no. He did call for another officer to issue a blow tube for me, all the while I am still sitting in my car. It was cold outside and it was warm in my car. I blew in the tube, satisfied their curiosity and was bid a good evening.

    Now suppose I had refused to blow..good chance that my "hassel" free life would have been turned upside down, maybe briefly for one night but still UP SIDE DOWN! By blowing into the tube, I suspect I avoided a trip to jail for the night, an impound fee, a towing fee and possibly a bail fee as my wife was shitfaced and surely they would not have allowed her to sit in the lobby while I am in the back room with the duty nurse having blood drawn..in the end, my judgement played in my favor. It's a good thing (Jeff is it?) that you were not in the car with me as you sir, would have been HASSELD!

  12. #72
    New Member Array Ozarkian's Avatar
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    DUI Blog

    He never asked to search and if he had, I would have told him no. He did call for another officer to issue a blow tube for me, all the while I am still sitting in my car. It was cold outside and it was warm in my car. I blew in the tube, satisfied their curiosity and was bid a good evening.
    Be careful. You can be arrested and booked for DUI even if you haven't been drinking.

    Go here: Go here: http://www.duiblog.com/2005/05/09/th...-constitution/

    Then go to the blog (http://www.duiblog.com/ ) and look around, including browsing "The Library" down the page in the right hand column.

  13. #73
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrLewall View Post
    [B]...Got pulled over one night ... He "accused" me of crossing the double yellow and weaving...again, he was bored and made this up as I never onced crossed the dbl yellow nor weaved ... I hand him my paper work, minus the permit..he runs the info and comes back and asks me where my gun was, I said what gun..he says that since I have a permit then I have a gun in the car. I told him just because I have a permit does not mean that I have a gun in the car, and there was no gun in the car, if there had been, I would have answered his question, but he was insistant. We vollied back and forth for a bit and I won, ther was NO GUN in the car.
    I'm glad to read that you would have refused a search. But I find it incomprehensible that you seem to be almost defending this cop who LIED to manufacture a cause to pull you over. You said yourself that you absolutely had not weaved over the double yellow line and the cop insisted you had. He also is ignorant enough to start insisting at you that you must have a gun in the car just because his records show you have a permit. This cop represents some of the worst behaviors that we should absolutely not tolerate from officials.

    I don't disagree that being disputatious with him might have cost you more hassle... but look at how we have to live scared because of what bad cops can just capriciously decide to pull! It sounds like you're lucky he didn't just decide that you were the guy he was gonna arrest for coke possession that night!

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