Gotta Tell ?? Why??
This is a discussion on Gotta Tell ?? Why?? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was reading up on the laws of other states(other than Fla.) and I see that in lots of states,if your pulled over by a ...
June 24th, 2005 04:12 PM
Gotta Tell ?? Why??
I was reading up on the laws of other states(other than Fla.) and I see that in lots of states,if your pulled over by a LEO you MUST reveal that you have a conceled weapon on your person or in your vechicle. I have been giving this alot of thought,putting myself in the position of an LEO, and I can't come up with but a couple of reasons for this. One is that (i guess)if they ask you to step out of your vechicle and they just happen to see your weapon or if they have cause to pat you down they wont go beserk. If you tell them that you have a CCW license,do they have a RIGHT to touchie-feelie your weapon? Can they ask you to unload it? Can they take posession of it until the stop is finished? What are their rights and what are your rights(if any) during a traffic stop?-------
June 24th, 2005 05:46 PM
If you have a handgun carry permit in Tennessee, you are not obligated to disclose to law enforcement if you are carrying or not, unless you are asked directly.
However... in TN, your carry permit number is the same as your drivers license number. So whenever your license plate or drivers license is run, it automatically cross references the fact that you have a handgun carry permit and automatically notifies the officer.
June 24th, 2005 06:31 PM
Here in Missouri it is not required, but when I was stop I told them and then when finished ask what caliper and said have a good day. I see no reason NOT to tell.
June 24th, 2005 06:53 PM
In Texas you've got to tell.
I don't know why either. In the first place, once the officer runs your license he knows you have a CHL regardless of whether you tell him or not.
In the second place, why would someone who has subjected themselves to such extensive scrutiny and passed be a person who would have probable cause to attack an officer of the law at a traffic stop?
I hate it because all it does is lend itself to abuse by the handful of crooked folks out there. There's a local community around here where the standard procedure is that once you tell them you're a CHL holder, they take your gun. No questions asked. I can point you to three people who this has happened to. I avoid the area myself. This is also giving Texas law enforcement a bad name.
I also hate it because it means come September 1, a non permit holder will be allowed to have a gun in their vehicle but no part of Texas law states or implies they must reveal its presence to law enforcement. As a permit holder I will however still be required to do so. How is that fair?
June 24th, 2005 07:15 PM
You need to look at it from the officer's point of view.
When you are first stopped you ARE a total Stranger to that officer.
You are an Unknown Entity.
The officer has absolutely no way of knowing if your ID is really yours or you just stole it from somebody else 2 hours ago.
He also has no real way of knowing if your vehicle is stolen & just has not been reported stolen yet.
He also does not know if the true owner of that vehicle that you are driving is dead/murdered and stuffed into the trunk of the car.
In Pennsylvania we are not required to disclose but, I would do it as a matter of common courtesy if I were ever asked to exit my vehicle.
I also would not judge all police officers or police departments by one town in Texas.
I read every Pittsburgh newspaper & I have not ever read of one instance where a firearm was confiscated from a legally licensed Concealed Carry License Holder just because the police officer maybe wanted a new gun for himself. That just does not happen here.
June 24th, 2005 07:22 PM
I think they're going into an evidence locker QK. But no one I know, including someone this happened to a year and a half ago, has ever gotten it back. Makes me wonder.
I counter your post with this:
You need to look at it from the Consituition's point of view. I am innocent until proven guilty. I didn't jump through all the legal hoops because I'm the kind of person who would even consider something so base, so evil as to fire on an officer at a traffic stop.
Show me one incident of a CHL holder gunning down an officer at a traffic stop and I'll shut up about it.
Explain to me a good reason why I have to declare and a non permit holder does not and I'll shut up about it.
There are other laws which are inconvenient but I support that favor LEOs. I strongly favor the Get On Over law even though it's a pain in the ass because there's strong precedent for its need. But I take this law as an insult to my character.
June 24th, 2005 07:35 PM
got to tell here too and yes to all over your questions why who knows but i do know that when your Drivers Lic is run your permit to carry comes up first
June 24th, 2005 07:35 PM
Euc, the NRA filed a law suite against the city of LA CA because they were taking firearms from people and not returning them. I have heard from a lawyer while briefing us on what to if stopped etc. to go down to the police station and be very polite and ask for your property. I can understand a transaction, you took my property and I need it back kind of deal but suck somebody's kneecaps to get back what they took from me is not the American way. Until the city in question is brought to task keeping firearms it won't stop.
As you slide down the banister of life,
May the splinters never point the wrong way.
NRA Life Member
June 24th, 2005 09:45 PM
I realize some LEOs may not like legal CCW, however I think most do not have a problem with it. Anyone who intends harm to them is not going to inform him he has a concealed weapon first. The real danger LEOs face each day is those who carry without a permit and who are not going to say anything.
June 24th, 2005 10:43 PM
VIP Member (Retired Staff)
Not mandatory in PA but - I would feel it a courtesy on most occasions to declare such if stopped - being up front, that's all - on the assumption that the cop doing the stop could better relax once he knows I am a good guy.
I would furthermore on telling - ask the simple question - ''how would you wish me to proceed'' - giving the cop better control and less guesswork. I only say this because I have never relished the aspect of traffic stops for a cop where for a short time - he really does not know who he is facing.
IMO - better for him - better for me.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member. "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."http://www.rkba-2a.com/
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
June 25th, 2005 12:02 AM
I Virginia we don't have to notify the officer if we are carrying but he will know when he runs your drivers licence. I was pulled over last fall and had my Sig 239 on me. Before the officer walked up to my door I already had my drivers licence, insurance card, registration card and CCW permit out. When I handed him the cards I said "Here also is my carry permit and...ahhhh...I have a firearm on me right now. What do you need me to do?" The whole time Keeping my hands on the steering wheel. He looked at my carry permit for a few seconds and handed it back to me and said "just leave the gun where it's at and sit tight" He walked back to his car and I guess ran my drivers licence. When he came back he just handed me the rest of my cards, thanked me for informing him I was carrying, scolded me for driving fast and let me go with a warning.
I guess a little courtesy will can go along way sometimes.
"EVERYONE is operating with only partial information" :hand27:
Some Wise Guy, USA 2001
June 25th, 2005 12:21 AM
The most common thing I've heard (from my CCW class instructor and my father who is a retired LEO and firearms instructor) is the following:
1) Keep hands on steering wheel after shutting off engine
2) When the officer approaches, state that you have a carry permit and that you have a weapon on or about your person
3) Ask the officer what his instructions are, as every officer may handle the situation differently
When I was pulled over several years ago, I followed that advice. The officer asked me to step out of the car, then asked me where the weapon was located. He then removed it from my person, unloaded it and placed it into his patrol car. After admonishing me for my speeding, he handed it back to me (unloaded) and that was that. It didn't bother me as I understood the officer's position.
June 25th, 2005 12:26 AM
Yep , MI requires ya to tell em. As a former LEO I would want to know if someone was carrying. Off duty folks who get pulled over inform em too. Its just safer for the officer and driver this way. Much better than staring down a barrel of a duty weapon cause they spotted a gun on ya.
June 25th, 2005 02:22 AM
I completely agree with QKS and P95 and I can tell you that even though it is cross referenced with your DL information, I have run someone before (when I was a reserve LEO) only to find out the computer went down and I couldn't get any information back. In that case you would just be a guy with a gun.
I have been stopped once when I was carrying (open, not concealed) and when the officer came to the window and asked for my license and registration, I pointed at the holstered gun and told him that I had it. He asked if it was loaded. I said yes. He asked me to hand it out to him, which I did. He took my paperwork, and the gun, back to his car. When he came back, he had removed the magazine and cleared the gun. He handed me the magazine and the single round and asked me to put it in my glove compartment, which I did. He then handed me the holstered weapon and asked that I not reload it untill he had pulled away. I said "yes, sir", he handed me my license and registration back and told me he appreciated my courtesy informing of the weapon. I didn't get a ticket although I was, in fact, speeding 15+ over. There's no doubt in my mind that the only reason I didn't get ticketed was that I showed him the courtesy of considering his comfort and safety. State Patrol in Arizona don't usually let you slide on speeding 10+ over the limit. I don't care what the law is, I will inform them I am armed to avoid any misunderstandings.
Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.
June 25th, 2005 03:07 AM
I can see some of both sides of this coin ~ but,
Here in PA. our (LTC Holders) relationship with our local, county, & state officers (so far) has pretty doggone amazingly good. I hope it forever stays that way.
I have not ever found it to be an "US VS.THEM" type of situation.
As far as I am concerned I am on the same correct side of the law as Law Enforcement so...I see no problem extending them the courtesy of knowing that I have a firearm on my person if...there is anything more involved going on...than them handing me a simple ticket through the window.
I don't have a problem with that at all.
Of course...it's just my opinion that I personally don't look at it as an affront on my legal right to carry to inform an officer that I am armed.
He wants to go home at the end of the day & so do I ~ so...whatever helps to eliminate any possible human error or misunderstanding is O~Kee~Doke~Kee with me.
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