October 18th, 2007 08:14 AM
In Michigan you can open fire if someone breaks in, what if your at families house?
Basically what if your somewhere outside your home/car and instead in someone elses? Do the same laws apply?
October 18th, 2007 08:50 AM
In Florida, the "answer" would be yes if you were an invited guest.
But, FL law says nothing about "opening fire". The point is self defense and the lawful use of force.
There is a lot to study about Deadly Force, Reasonable Belief, etc. A FL attorney (Jon Gutmacher) has a great book that covers FL law. YOu might look for a similar book on MI law.
October 18th, 2007 09:07 AM
Im not a lawyer nor do I play on on tv but, with a little research i found this. I am sure if you Googled it you would find what your looking for.
Sec. 2. (1) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses deadly force may use deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if either of the following applies:
(a) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent death of or imminent great bodily harm to himself or herself or to another individual.
(b) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent sexual assault of himself or herself or of another individual.
(2) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses force other than deadly force may use force other than deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if he or she honestly and reasonably believes that the use of that force is necessary to defend himself or herself or another individual from the imminent unlawful use of force by another individual.
October 18th, 2007 09:15 AM
Coming from a Buckeye
As long as you're from Ohio, I've heard that you can shoot ANYONE from That State Up North on sight, just for being Maize and Blue!
(JUST KIDDING, WOLVERINES. Little rivalry humor. Please don't shoot me!)
A man in the hands of his enemies is flesh, and shudderingly vulnerable. - author unknown
October 18th, 2007 09:25 AM
i know its early and the coffee hasnt kicked in yet.i dont think
the term open fire sounds good but in mich,(castle doctrine).
any place you have a legal right to be. at home,friends,etc.
thats my understanding. any fellow mich.members if you find
this incorrect,feel free to let me know.i try to do as much home
work as i can on mich, cpl laws. thanks
(SHERIFF BUFORD T. JUSTICE) "what the hell is
the world coming too"
NRA LIFE MEMBER
U.S. ARMY FT.SILL, OKLA.
October 18th, 2007 09:56 AM
You have a right to defend yourself or another person if your legally there in Michigan. The above posts are correct.
Les Baer 45
N.R.A. Patron Life Member
October 18th, 2007 10:04 AM
If you or your family is in the house and someone is trying forcibly enter, it should be held that you feared for life and/or grave bodily harm. If you and the family are in the back yard then no. A friends house? I have no idea. Even a close friend might have a drunk friend that is authorized to be there. I'd have to hold back on that one until he gets in with a machete or whatever.
October 18th, 2007 10:05 AM
Here's a synopsis of Michigan's Castle laws in plain english.
Each of these Bills provide rather specific circumstances and protections which, taken as a whole, provide strong protection for a person who is forced to defend himself from criminal attack (which here means grievous bodily injury, rape, or death).
PA 311 provides a "rebuttable presumption" in a civil or criminal case that a person who defends himself believes that criminal attack is threatened if (1) he is in a dwelling or business, or (2) the criminal is attempting to remove someone from a dwelling, business, or vehicle. This does not apply if the alleged criminal has a legal right to be in the dwelling or business, or if the person defending himself is committing a crime, or if the person entering is a law enforcement officer in the course of his duties.
PA 310 states that a prosecutor may still charge a person who has defended himself if the prosecutor can present to the court evidence that the person did not believe he was threatened with criminal attack. This represents a substantial change from the prior law which puts the burden of proof on the person defending himself to show that he did believe he was subject to criminal attack.
PA 309 says that if a person is anywhere he has a legal right to be, he has no duty to retreat if he believe he is threatened by criminal attack. Note that this differs from the home/business situation where it is presumed that he believes he is subject to criminal attack.
PA 313 is subtle: "Sec. 21c. (1) In cases in which section 2 of the self-defense act does not apply, the common law of this state applies except that the duty to retreat before using deadly force is not required if an individual is in his or her own dwelling or within the curtilage of that dwelling."
PA 314 states that a person who defends himself (or in defense of another individual) with deadly force or less than deadly force anywhere he has a right to be is immune from civil liability for damages.
PA 312 provides attorney fees to a defendant if a civil suit is filed and the court determines that the defendant is immune from civil liability under PA 314.
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Michigan Antique Arms Collectors life member
Ohio Gun Collectors member
Opinions expressed here are based upon Michigan state law ONLY. Other state laws may differ. Know and observe your local laws.
October 18th, 2007 11:07 AM
what my lawyer told me:
the castle doctrine (they dont have to be attacking you for you to use deadly force- they just have to be in your house w/o your permission) applies to anywhere which you are dwelling. so if you are staying at your parents house for the weekend then yes. if you stopped by to say hello, then no.
i think it may also apply to your car. i dont remember exactly
October 18th, 2007 11:43 AM
I think the key points are:
+You can use deadly force anywhere you have a legal right to be (home, car, grocery store, walking the dog) as long as: the conditions under which deadly force is authorized is met (Intent, Ability, Opportunity, Immediacy of threat). Inside your home, or your car, I believe its assumed that forcible entry is a felony comitted against you and justifies the use of lethal force.
+ You cannot be sued by the victim or someone on behalf of the victim if the prosecutor/court/jury (depending on how the case is reviewed) deems that the use of force was justified. If you meet that criteria, you are protected under the Castle Doctrine.
October 18th, 2007 12:08 PM
If I remember the details correctly in SC (Should be similar in other states) you need to satisfy three conditions:
In a place you have a right to be, which is most places including the sidewalk or your parents home, your car or place of work.
You must not be breaking any laws, beating your wife, drunk, robbing a bank, etc.
There must be an equality of force. A girl scout with a butter knife is not justified but an intruder does not have to have a gun for the force to be equal.
SC also includes the alter ego situation where if the clerk at the quick mart is being robbed you can put yourself in there place and use the same force as they would.
If you hear a knock on the door at 3:00 am you don't have the right to shoot through the door without knowing who is on the other side. You look out and find 5 gang-bangers about to knock down your door it is different than if you see the girl scout with a warped sense of humor selling cookies at that time of the morning.
Main thing is that you have the right to DEFEND yourself no matter where you are but it doesn't giv you the right to shoot someone for stealing your hubcaps off your car or just becasue they are walking across your yard calling you names. But if they are in your house at 3:00 am they better have a good reason and let you know quickly what it is.
October 19th, 2007 04:11 AM
Lol, dont be mad we are better
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