I Haven't Had a Good Rant In Some Time
This is a discussion on I Haven't Had a Good Rant In Some Time within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have a couple bones to pick with the general populace, but because I'm too polite to say anything I'll regret latter, I'm left ranting ...
October 18th, 2007 11:23 PM
I Haven't Had a Good Rant In Some Time
I have a couple bones to pick with the general populace, but because I'm too polite to say anything I'll regret latter, I'm left ranting here (you poor people).
My first rant comes from something every legally armed individual with half a brain should be ranting about: being disarmed.
Without going into much detail I'll just say that I was "asked" not to carry in an establishment, though that establishment has boasted about how "pro-gun" it is. The reason given was that "THEY" (meaning, of course, the establishment) "don't want me to hurt myself or get hurt because I have a gun."
I won't get into much of how "they" knew I was carrying (because it was concealed) other than I was trying out a new holster, I was bending over to reach a dropped pen ACROSS a desk, and "THEY" saw a bulge in my sweater and actually grabbed it. I won't get into much of the exchange after I felt someone grab my gun, but let's just say it wasn't pleasant.
Were this some anti-gun, disillusioned establishment with unreasonable understandings and fears, I could almost understand their error in thinking, but as this was a self-proclaimed PRO-gun establishment, I was shocked at the vial anti-gun arguments that came out of the mouth of an individual who claims to be a supporter of the civilian public to keep and bear arms.
For the first time in the last two years (other than when I went to visit family in Wisconsin) I was disarmed.
I was angry.
"THEY" said they didn't want me to get hurt, but I didn't see them providing armed security back and forth from my car and then to and from my home.
I neither ask nor expect anyone to protect me and that is why I have taken that responsibility on myself. I don't carry be a hero. I carry so that I have a fighting chance in this world that seems to get more evil every day.
How can an establishment that claims to support our rights also restrict one's rights? Why should those principles apply only in theory and not in practice?
Anyway... On to rant number two.
People and their pride.
A man comes into our shop today and wants a Glock 23 or 27 for home protection/range practice and there's nothing wrong with that.
Then I overhear him say that he's hoping his wife (who's terrified of guns) will also be able to handle the gun and get interested in shooting with him.
I ask him if his wife has ever shot a gun before, to which he responds that she has not.
I suggest that perhaps the .40 in such a lightweight frame might not be the best starter pistol for her and that perhaps he should look at something in a little less potent of a caliber.
Apparently I committed the carnal sin.
He yelled, "Nothing in my home will ever be less than a .40! If I had it my way my wife'd start with a .44!"
I don't understand this kind of thinking. As though the .40 the woman won't touch because she hates the thing is going to be better in the back of the safe than the 9mm she might actually enjoy shooting and practice with?
I wished him luck in his shooting goals with his wife and told him to come back and give me a full report when he takes her to the range. I hope I'm wrong, but I have a sinking feeling we'll not only NOT win another shooter, but possibly another frightened wife suffering from husbandneedstocompensateitis.
And last but not least.. Do people actually not have a problem passing on complete fantasy as truth?
I mean, we know that the antis do it all the time. We have come to expect that. But what about us gun folk? Shouldn't we be held to a little higher standard?
When someone comes to us, seeking advice, isn't it up to us to make sure that advice is sound?
I sat and listened in disbelief as a man recommended a .22 magnum to a woman who came searching for a gun for home defense and carry against her ex-husband who is currently under investigation for the murder of his previous wife.
When the woman actually ASKED for a more powerful gun as she really felt she needed a bigger bullet, the man proceeded to recommend a .38 and talk her OUT of the .357 that she had been eye-balling.
Then he told her that ONE hollow-point round from the .38 would be all she would ever need to take down whatever was coming at her.
She smiled, relief seemed to flood her face and she thanked the man for his advice.
When I tried to interject into the conversation and warn her that it may actually take MORE than JUST ONE hollow-point round, she looked confused again and the man played me down as though I was just trying to scare her.
I pray she never has to use her gun, but I don't want to think of her picking up her gun with confidence, firing it in self-defense and then being devastated when her magic bullet doesn't stop an attacker.
I pulled her to the side and said, "Despite what you've heard. Don't count on one bullet doing the trick. If you need to, just keep pulling the trigger. Stay safe."
I've also heard it said that from 10 yards a .40 caliber round to the arm will stop any attacker (no matter what he's on) dead in his tracks.
WHERE DO PEOPLE GET THIS INFORMATION?
If it does... GREAT! But why set someone up to expect that kind of thing? Why tell them this caliber or that will bring an attacker down in one foul swoop when there are dozens of cases out there were individuals have sustained MULTIPLE hits of various calibers, all over the body and STILL kept coming? Why build that kind of illusion? That kind of stuff is for Hollywood. It has no place in reality.
We, as gun people, are the "go to" guys. What we say is expected to be true, even though we know that we can all make mistakes and that a second opinion should be acquired.
However, the little old lady who woke up one morning to find her window broken and scared to death, just looking for a chance at defending herself, doesn't know to get a second opinion. She expects to be told the truth by the person in the gun store. She deserves as much.
I'm tried of hearing BAD advice about carry methods, calibers, guns, laws, and mindset, and even more tired of being told I'm wrong or being condescended when I try to interject a little reality into the conversation.
I'm not the begin all and end all on these matters, but I'm not an idiot either. In many cases I've had to readjust my thinking and get a few facts straight and when I'm told I'm wrong I seek out either the proof of my error or my confirmation. However, some of these things, if one knows even just a hint of what they speak, can be extremely logical and with a little common sense, very easy to comprehend.
I feel like making and handing out cards with every gun purchase that say something to the effect of "Take everything you heard with a grain of salt, get a second opinion, and do some research. This is your life, protect it with sound advice."
We aren't advising people on what color to paint their living room walls. We are advising them on what tool they should rely on to save their own life if it comes down to that. Shouldn't we feel an awesome responsibility to get our facts straight and give good advice?
I know I do.
Anyway, those are my rants... I feel better... but only a little bit. I'm still irritated!
October 18th, 2007 11:32 PM
Lima, all I got to say is I told you so. This is why I refuse to work behind a gun counter. It took the all fun away.
Gun people can be weird sometimes. Ego's can override logic sometimes.
A quick word on the disarming... they support your right to carry, and you should support their right to a gun free place. If my gun isnt welcome, then I'm not welcome. Me and my money go else where. If it so happens to be an employer, me and my talents go else where.
October 18th, 2007 11:36 PM
I'm glad you feel better......venting always helps.
In summary, some people are dumb and it's plain tough dealing with the public sometimes.
When reading your post I kept thinking about the slogan on straightdope.com home page:
FIGHTING IGNORANCE SINCE 1973
(IT'S TAKING LONGER THAN WE THOUGHT)
Gain a 2A vote, take a fence-sitter shooting.
October 18th, 2007 11:42 PM
Too many morons who are anti female (as far as guns) and lots of idiots who believe too much hollyweird hype about ballistics and performance.
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
October 19th, 2007 12:00 AM
I can relate all day long lima. In the workplace, in my MP unit, with family and friends, the eternal argument rages on about one-shot stops and what caliber is the best, ect...
I really liked when you said "We are advising them on what tool they should rely on to save their own life if it comes down to that." I believe that most of us realize there is not a 1-size fits all tool for everyone in the SD department.
I guess I don't feel as threatened as others do about being disarmed. In the Silver State of Nevada, it's pretty lenient IMO. As for America, our guns are going no where soon IMO. As for private establishments, what they don't know doesn't hurt'em. And If by chance they "make me", I guess I have to live with the consequences.
Send me some copies of those flyers you're gonna start putting into every gun purchase k? :)
"Like a muddied spring or polluted well is a righteous man who gives way to the wicked." -Proverbs 25:26
"If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed..." -Exodus 22:2
October 19th, 2007 12:29 AM
I have met quite a few gun store employees who are gun people but not people people. Store owners should focus on hiring customer service oriented salesmen and not mall ninjas.
On the other hand, do you get all your advice on buying a car from the salesman?
October 19th, 2007 12:32 AM
Luv That Lima!
Once again you have given us something to think about. And I believe we all need to think hard on these subjects.
Every "Pro Gun", "Pro2A" individual has the responsibility to maintain the integrity of our "sub culture". I call it a sub culture because, by definition, that is what we are. A faction of the population who believe in an ideal or way of life that is not generally accepted as the "norm".
Never mind that the Ideal we espouse is the safety and protection of ourselves and our loved ones.
Any individual or organization that talks the pro 2A talk and then strips us of our rights or spreads false/misleading "facts" deserves our disdain and we should feel obligated to distance ourselves from them, at the very least, and attempt to "lead them back to the light" by what ever means we have available.
I hope that you remain in a position to help those who are willing to seek that help. I also hope that you are in a position to "correct" the wrong minded individuals you spoke of in this post.
October 19th, 2007 12:39 AM
I have the problem with my wife shooting my firearms. I have a 40 S&W P229 Sig and a 1911 GSR Sig 45ACP. Neither is good for her to shoot. i took her out and let her try the 40 and after the first shot it looked like she was trying to skin a live rattlesnake. Too much firearm too soon. We're going out with our class on Saturday and I hope the instructor has a smaller cal she can try. She sometimes says she wants a smaller revolver (maybe a Lady Smith) and then she backs out. I think a 9mm would be good, but running the slide is a technique she would need to practice.
October 19th, 2007 12:44 AM
Originally Posted by luvmy40
I don't think we are the sub-culture. It's the anti's that's the sub-culture. Being PRO 2A is the one subject conservitives and liberals often agree on. My little brother is a Dem back in KY and very PRO 2A, owns a new Glock 40 cal. My dad was a Dem (So. Dem) and big on guns. Almost evryone I work with is pro 2A, granted I work in the Aerospace Industry. Some of my in-laws are anti's, but they don't have a frame of reference for a good gun onwer.
October 19th, 2007 12:48 AM
Sir you are correct!
NO GUNS NO BUSINESS!
October 19th, 2007 02:14 AM
Ok Lima... Some great rants there! I'm with ya 100%
Regarding being in a business who is pro-2nd Amend. or not, If they get snotty and ask you to disarm, I wouldn't be spending any money there.
Anyone who has the audacity to grab my gun in my holster "just to see if I'm packing" will be picking themselves up off the floor, possibly with a broken wrist. I don't even play around with that. I don't care if they are wearing a suit or a skirt... Grabbing someones gun is "poor form" in the extreme!
I have the responsibility to not let anyone grab my gun and disarm me. I can't afford to give someone the "luxury" of trying to think if someone is just playing around or actually trying to get my gun. Therefore, anyone who grabs for my weapon gets a very aggressive weapon retention technique applied without hesitation.
As far as I'm concerned, weapon retention should be an "immediate action" drill and second nature and every bit as important as drawing and clearing leather.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
October 19th, 2007 02:25 AM
JD someone needs a hug!!!!
Way to get it out of your system Lima. This way it won't ruin your weekend. Stay safe!
Lex et Libertas — Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus, et Fidelis!
"Not only do the people who put their lives on the line to protect the rest of us deserve better, we all deserve better than to have our own security undermined by those who undermine law enforcement." -Thomas Sowell
October 19th, 2007 02:55 AM
o.k so spill the beans. who is pretending to be 2a and acting like antis. Shouldn't it be common knowledge so the public isn't fooled.
I totally agree with you about know it all gun guru's, but it is up to the individual to sift through the useful information. Personally I don't stop at even the second opinion.
Sometimes it's fun to ask questions to self appointed experts just so you can hear them go off, and then snicker internally about how wrong someone can be.
Aren't you glad you have somewhere to rant about this and have total understanding support.
do what you can with what you have where you are at (theodore roosevelt)
October 19th, 2007 03:58 AM
October 19th, 2007 05:22 AM
Please tell us who this establishment is so we can all stay away and hopefully send a letter or email stating why. Are you sure this was the position of the store and not a over zealous employee? Did you speak to management? I can promise you this if anyone, anyone, EVER lays a hand on my sidearm they better be able to dodge a fist faster than Ali, because I promise you fists will be flying. This was handled very poorly by the employee and management deserves to be contacted.
Sir I must disagree with you, we are a sub culture, with no doubt about it. Glad you are surrounded by so many pro 2nd amen. folks in your life. I reckon I am too but this doesn't mean the same holds true regarding the population of the US. Take a look at the population of your state of residence. How many have taken the time and made the investment in obtaining a CC permit? Now how many of those permit holders actually carry on a daily basis and practic regularly with their sidearm? I think you will quickly find that the statement regarding we are a sub culture is 100% in fact true!!
When Seconds Count, The Cops Are Just Minutes Away!!
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