Texas Unlicensed Carry

This is a discussion on Texas Unlicensed Carry within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by libertarian5 Texas if fairly clear on the subject - It is ok to carry concealed in a car without a CHL. It ...

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Thread: Texas Unlicensed Carry

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array cwblanco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by libertarian5 View Post
    Texas if fairly clear on the subject - It is ok to carry concealed in a car without a CHL. It used to be that you had to cross multiple county lines to prove you were traveling, but that has been recently changed. Open carry is not allowed - the gun must be hidden from view. Look at this online reference at the Texas DPS web site. It has information on unlicensed car carry.
    http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/adminis...ds/chl/faq.htm
    That Texas DPS site is obsolete. The data on that site is data that existed before the 2007 changes which went into effect on September 1, 2007. It is now legal to have a handgun in your automobile the same as in your home without regard to whether you are "travelling."

    In 2005 the old law was modified to provide for a presumption of travelling. Some district attorneys took the position that because it was only a presumption and that they still would accept charges with the attitude that they could overcome the presumption. The 2007 law does away with the presumption and merely gives one's automobile the same status as his home. The handgun must still be concealed -- the same as is required for concealed handgun permit holders.

    http://www.cwhitelaw.com

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  3. #17
    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    Don't violate traffic laws; the police will not contact you; the probability of negative LEO interaction will approach zero.

    We always write about avoiding areas where we know in advance that we might need our weapons. This is just one more case where avoiding the unpleasant situation is also a really good tactic.

  4. #18
    Member Array broknindarkagain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    We always write about avoiding areas where we know in advance that we might need our weapons. This is just one more case where avoiding the unpleasant situation is also a really good tactic.
    Avoiding problems is an excellent tactic...but you can't always stay away from trouble...Sometimes it finds you. I've learned that first hand, in my own home unfortunately.
    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

    Smith & Wesson M&P9c

  5. #19
    Member Array mousehunter's Avatar
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    I am sorry, I posted from memory of something I read a few months ago. I paraphrased, and currently can not find the law in the Federal register.

    My humble understanding is that possession of pistols (other than those specifically licensed, such as chl and leo, and probably a few other specific exceptions) are prohibited within 500 or 1000 foot of schools by federal law. My search this morning could only turn up a federal "gun free zone" law - which might apply - which appears to ban unlocked firearms from 1000 ft of schools (I really have not investigated this one though).

    As a license is issued to an individual, not the actual firearm, my paraphrasing probably got a work or two off at that point. This was not specifically discussed in my chl class, other than a point was made as to what constituted premises varies weather or not a chl is held - you are still out of luck with Texas law if you park in the school parking lot without a chl (premise with chl is the building) .

  6. #20
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    http://www.cwhitelaw.com[/QUOTE]


    Great website!

  7. #21
    M2
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    Quote Originally Posted by mousehunter View Post
    I am sorry, I posted from memory of something I read a few months ago. I paraphrased, and currently can not find the law in the Federal register.

    My humble understanding is that possession of pistols (other than those specifically licensed, such as chl and leo, and probably a few other specific exceptions) are prohibited within 500 or 1000 foot of schools by federal law. My search this morning could only turn up a federal "gun free zone" law - which might apply - which appears to ban unlocked firearms from 1000 ft of schools (I really have not investigated this one though).

    As a license is issued to an individual, not the actual firearm, my paraphrasing probably got a work or two off at that point. This was not specifically discussed in my chl class, other than a point was made as to what constituted premises varies weather or not a chl is held - you are still out of luck with Texas law if you park in the school parking lot without a chl (premise with chl is the building) .
    Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

    First of all, you were thinking of the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990, which made it "unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone. This does not include possession of a firearm on private property that is not part of school grounds."

    It was enacted as section 1702 of the Crime Control Act of 1990 (Pub.L. 101-647, 18 U.S.C. § 922(q)) on November 29, 1990; but was subsequently declared to be an unconstitutional exercise of Congressional authority under the Commerce Clause of the United States Constitution by the United States Supreme Court, and was therefore voided.

    As for Texas law in school parking lots, by definition "premises" means "a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area." (PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER (f)(3)).

    HB 2112 "prohibits a person from intentionally exhibiting, using or threatening to exhibit or use a firearm while on public or private school property (including in a school parking lot), or while on a school bus being used to transport children to or from school-sponsored activities."

    As such, it is OK to keep a handgun concealed in a car, with or without a CHL. You can also conceal carry outside of school premises, as long as you have a CHL. The only exceptions would be if there was a legal posting of a "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code" sign that complies with Texas law.

    Cheers! M2

  8. #22
    Member Array mousehunter's Avatar
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    perhaps I was wrong, wrong, wrong.

    My initial reply was not concerning the 1990 act - and my second reply stated that I was unable to find the source for the law I was paraphrasing. I have not attempted to to investigate state laws concerning possession on school property versus concealed carry on school premises. That said I personally would not park in the school parking lot with a gun w/o a chl - your feelings and mileage may vary. Eventually as time permits I might try to site a source for what was taught in my chl course.

    As for the 1990 act, I never intended to refer to it as I understand that it was ruled unconstitutional. Here is a quote about that from the NRA's Institue for Legislative Action's website
    The Gun-Free School Zones Act was initially part of the Crime Control Act of 1990 (Public Law 101-647) that took effect on Jan. 29, 1991. On April 26, 1995, the Supreme Court struck it down as unconstitutional. In U.S. v. Lopez, the Court stated that Congress had overstepped its constitutional powers to regulate interstate commerce when it passed the law banning gun possession within 1,000 ft. of a school. The decision turned on whether Congress had the power to pass the law under the Commerce Clause of the Constitution, which specifically grants Congress the power to regulate interstate commerce.

    In September 1996, Sen. Herb Kohl (D-Wis.) offered as an amendment to the Treasury, Postal Appropriations bill a slightly modified version of the original Gun-Free School Zones Act. It passed and was included in the Omnibus Appropriations bill for fiscal year 1997. In an attempt to satisfy the Court`s concerns, the amendment specified that the law would apply to a firearm that has "moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce." Virtually all firearms have crossed state lines and would potentially be covered by the new language.

  9. #23
    M2
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    Sorry partner, but it is easy to cut and paste what you said...

    As a license is issued to an individual, not the actual firearm, my paraphrasing probably got a work or two off at that point. This was not specifically discussed in my chl class, other than a point was made as to what constituted premises varies weather or not a chl is held - you are still out of luck with Texas law if you park in the school parking lot without a chl (premise with chl is the building) .
    Which is wrong, simple and clear, and may serve to confuse people on concealed carry in Texas.

    As always, I advise people to download the laws from the DPS web site I posted earlier and read them for themselves. If you still have questions, then call DPS. Don't rely on anyone on the Internet as all they are doing is providing advice at best. If it is wrong, it is not their responsibility; it is yours. But I try to include references to web sites or documents where people can get the right answer.

    Bottom line, as of 1 Sep 2007 it is not illegal to keep a concealed weapon in your car in Texas, even on school grounds. CHL holders can also conceal carry on campus as long as they don't enter the premises (as defined earlier as basically school buildings and sports facilities). HB 2112, now law, "Prohibits the intentional exhibition, use or threat to use or exhibit a firearm in or on any property, including a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area, that is owned by a private or public school." In other words, you can conceal carry, but you cannot intentionally exhibition, use or threateb to use or exhibit a firearm on school grounds.

    Cheers! M2

  10. #24
    Member Array Texas Yankee's Avatar
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    Be careful. Go to the TexasCHLforum referred to earlier. The consensus of the lawyers on that site is that it is not illegal under Texas law to have a concealed handgun in your car on school grounds however you will be violating a Federal law that prohibits possession of guns within 1000 feet of a school. As noted above that law was passed after the previous version was ruled unconstitution. So far it doesn't appear that there have been any prosecutions under that Federal law, but do you really want to be the first one?

    BTW since it is a Federal law it will not show up on the DPS site.

  11. #25
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    Yet another reason to get your Texas CHL. If $$ is an issue, get a Utah non-resident permit which will allow you to carry in Texas for half the cost. There's no qualification requires, class is about 4hrs and the renewal in 5 years will cost you $10 through the mail. If you travel alot, make sure you know the states which have reciprocity wiuth Texas/Utah or whatever state you get your CHL from. My wife got hers through Utah and insterad of worrying about school zones and such, she knows she car legally carry to the front door (but not inside) of our childrens school without worry or have it in the car.

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