Lawyers; In The Event Of...

This is a discussion on Lawyers; In The Event Of... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; What do folks find to be the best avenue for finding an Attorney with SD experience? I can't imagine flipping through the yellow pages blind ...

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  1. #16
    Member Array mattd's Avatar
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    What do folks find to be the best avenue for finding an Attorney with SD experience? I can't imagine flipping through the yellow pages blind calling firms to check how many SD cases they've represented!

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  3. #17
    Member Array CelticWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattd View Post
    What do folks find to be the best avenue for finding an Attorney with SD experience? I can't imagine flipping through the yellow pages blind calling firms to check how many SD cases they've represented!
    Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about seeking whom he may devour. 1 Peter 5:8


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  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattd View Post
    What do folks find to be the best avenue for finding an Attorney with SD experience? I can't imagine flipping through the yellow pages blind calling firms to check how many SD cases they've represented!
    Start reading resent case law from your area, and look at other court cases that came out favorable to your cause.
    I believe the NRA and other 2A groups have a referral service too.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  5. #19
    Ron
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscalzo View Post
    When I agree that running off your mouth is not the way to go, evidence and witnesses will disappear if not obtained quickly. By keeping quiet for 24 hours, you may lose the change to prove your side of the story quickly. While you might very well have your story verified, it might take weeks instead of hours at a cost to you that can't be believed.

    Remember, lawyers are getting paid to represent you. They aren't going to tell you NOT to use their services.
    Nobody is suggesting that you not try to get the names of witnesses immediately. And, are you suggesting that if involved in a use of deadly force situation, that getting an attorney as quickly as posssible is not necessary?
    "It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."

    J. R. R. Tolkien

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscalzo View Post
    Remember, lawyers are getting paid to represent you. They aren't going to tell you NOT to use their services.
    That's true, but it still doesn't change the fact that someone who has been through a self defense incident isn't at the top of their game and needs representation.

    What are police told to do after an incident in which they are the shooter? "Shut up and ask for an attorney"

    Shouldn't you do the same?

    During a use of force incident you may suffer one or all of the following symptoms of Tazhypsychia & Adrenaline:

    Time/space distortion
    Audio exclusion
    Tunnel vision
    Loss of fine motor skills
    Detachment
    Loss of memory
    Temporary paralysis
    Denial
    Excorporation-outof body experiance
    Fuge-zombie like state
    Cognative dissonance-mental scramble,
    remembering events out of order,
    the trivial seems important

    These effects can occur in various combinations and to varying degrees. One thing is for sure; you will not be the best judge of which of these and to what degree you are operating under when you questioning begins.

    Add to that any injury you might have sustained and it gets more complex.

    Beyond that, you are probably somewhat "high" because guess what? You survived a gunfight. I mean, you went to WAR and are now looking at the dead body of the man who tried to kill you. HO-YA!!


    So here you are, in pain, covered in blood (who's blood? are you bleeding? the other guy's blood? HIV? Hepatitis?) with your mental state all screwed up from adrenaline & stress thinking to yourself "Oh, no, this just did not happen...but it did, no...it couldn't have...oh man...my shirt is all stained! I'll have to get that cleaned...why can't I feel my face?..."

    You may not know you are out of it...but guess what...Nobody cares if you are suffering from these symptoms when you open your mouth.

    You have a little script prepared? Great.

    Can you stick to it when you are bleeding, out of breath, wondering if that knife had HIV on it, your head feels like it is wrapped in cotton with a hammer pounding on it?

    No?

    Then shut the hell up. Don't say a word beyond your name, and that you want a lawyer.

    If...IF you can string a coherent sentence together to tell the cops where the attacker's weapon is, do that too, but if you can't, you are still better off in the long run shutting up.

    It seems to me that a lot of people believe that spending a night, a weekend or a few weeks in jail is to be avoided at all costs...But that's something that is likely to happen if you are involved in an incident in which someone ends up dead.

    What is to be avoided at all costs is you being found guilty and spending years inside.

    To help you avoid that your attorney needs a wide open playing field, one that does not have on it any statements you have made to anyone outside his presence.

    Their is an urge among people to want to explain themselves to the police at the scene, get a pat on the back, go home and catch some rest, then go to work the next day. There is a strong urge to get them to understand and even approve of you.

    Fight it.

    Additionally, People also think the responding officer decides if you are going to be charged or not. He doesn't. That happens with the officer's superiors and the prosecutor.

    Your best chance to come out of a shooting incident without charges is to get a lawyer in on the ground floor.

    The variables are endless, the goal remains the same....Survive as best as possible.

    You are not served by speaking to the police before speaking to counsel...but don't take my word for it, because if you call me, I'll be paid to represent you.
    Last edited by Captain Crunch; November 8th, 2007 at 04:34 PM. Reason: Deleted language workarounds

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    My post may have come across as confrontational...but I'm trying to make a point.

    The aftermath of a self defense incident is just as dangerous as the incident itself...and maybe more so.

    After all, people train for the incident. They rarely prepare for the aftermath.

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array walvord's Avatar
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    I shot to stop the deadly threat to myself and/or my family. I will cooperate fully after consulting legal counsel. I find myself repeating this over and over - part of the training too, not just going to the range.
    The most exhilarating thing in life is getting shot at with no results.
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  9. #23
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    May I suggest.....

    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    May I suggest that instead of saying, "I shot the perp..." Might you change that part to say, "I shot to stop the threat."...OMO (Say as little as possible, although you may want to say a lot more...)

    Stay armed...stay safe!
    You might say, "I feared for my life and had to defend myself. I want to help you all I can but I want an attorney present before any questioning. Please call my lawyer if you want to ask me questions, search my person or my property, do any tests, lineups, or any other I.D. procedures. I do not agree to any of these things without my lawyer present and I do not waive my Constitutional Rights."
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

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  10. #24
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    1. Call 911 first. The person who calls first is the victim.
    2. Tell the responding Officer that I feared for my life.
    3. Tell the Officer where the evidence is and who the witnesses are.
    4. Tell the Officer you will sign a complaint. Makes you the victim
    5. Tell the Officer he will have your full cooperation in 24 hrs after you seek legal counsel.
    CCWINNC

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  11. #25
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    A little kink in the plan is that "24 hours" that people keep mentioning.

    Do you have counsel selected? If so, is he available? If he is available, will you have time to speak with him and pay his retainer?

    Also, who says you are going to be free to seek counsel?

    Does your wife/GF/mistress/brother know who to call...and will they make that call?

    Do they have access to the funds needed for a bond and counsel?

  12. #26
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    Very good points MitchellCT.

    In the Police Department I worked for, if you were involved in a shooting, one of the first things you were told to do was "keep your mouth shut until you had spoken to an attorney"! Quite often, a Police Union representative would arrive to counsel you and to remind you to keep quiet.

    Of course you give the investigation officers basic, brief information...

    ie: "he came at me with a gun and I believe he intended to shoot me" etc.

    Your adrenalin will be pumping and you will want to talk a LOT! You will want everyone to know that you're the good guy.

    Avoid saying any kind of statement like "I'm sorry I had to do it" or "he deserved to die". I know, it seem obvious but you will hear words in your head and even your mouth that later you'll say "why did I have to say that!"

    The Police know that the best thing for you to do is shut your mouth... they also have a job to do. Be patient, be courteous but do not be intimidated. You did what you had to do and were trained to do just like them. But most of all "BE QUIET" and contact an attorney immediately!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
    Your adrenalin will be pumping and you will want to talk a LOT! You will want everyone to know that you're the good guy.

    Avoid saying any kind of statement like "I'm sorry I had to do it" or "he deserved to die". I know, it seem obvious but you will hear words in your head and even your mouth that later you'll say "why did I have to say that!"
    That's what I refer to as Diarrhea of the mouth.

    Words you would rather not have come out, come out in gushes, you can't stop it, and they all stink.

    The best way to avoid it is to keep the lips firmly together.

  14. #28
    Distinguished Member Array CT-Mike's Avatar
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    So Mitchell,

    I take it you are an attorney in CT who takes on SD cases?

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Self defense cases are criminal defense.

    The police are going to treat it as a crime until things are explained. The prosecutor is going to do so as well.

    Yes, I do criminal defense.

  16. #30
    Member Array rscalzo's Avatar
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    1. Call 911 first. The person who calls first is the victim.
    2. Tell the responding Officer that I feared for my life.
    3. Tell the Officer where the evidence is and who the witnesses are.
    4. Tell the Officer you will sign a complaint. Makes you the victim
    5. Tell the Officer he will have your full cooperation in 24 hrs after you seek legal counsel.
    Exactly right.

    The scene of a shooting is mass confusion. I've been to way too many. The knife you saw may disappear along with your reasoning for shooting. Witnesses are not going to rush up to be involved. Time is of the essence. No one is saying give up your rights. what is being said is to protect your freedom. Telling the interviewing officers "what about the three people who saw the entire incident 24 hours later isn't doing you any good. Pointing out important factors for YOUR defense is not giving up your rights. God forbid you actually have to defend yourself in a court bet your life that the dirt bag you saw the night of the incident will not come across as Mr. All American when presented in court a year later.
    Richard Scalzo, Capt.
    Secaucus PD
    Secaucus, NJ
    Retired !!!!

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