ATTN Michigan Residents
This is a discussion on ATTN Michigan Residents within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I got an idea. Under michigan law we have to inform the officer if we are armed or not when we are pulled over. I ...
November 9th, 2007 04:35 PM
ATTN Michigan Residents
I got an idea. Under michigan law we have to inform the officer if we are armed or not when we are pulled over. I routinely drive employees home. What if we write a note and carry it inside our wallet that says:
I am carrying a weapon. It is (Location)..
This is a coworker/empolyee and I wish for them to not know.
We could hand them that note with our DL,CCW, Insurance and Registration. Note being on top and kinda motion to the officer.
November 9th, 2007 04:35 PM
November 9th, 2007 04:44 PM
Not to sound like a mean-spirited *******....
You could even put in a check box on the note for the officer to check if he'd like to see you outside the car
Ok, humor factor aside,
First off, IF you were to do such a thing, I would make it a laminated card, not a "note" Secondly, presenting the info that you're armed PRIOR to the officer seeing your permit/license etc. etc. is probably a bad idea.
I really don't know about the whole note thing, personally I'd just tell him I'm carrying.
Are you affraid that your co-workers will find out you carry at work, or is there another reason you wouldn't want them to know?
November 9th, 2007 05:03 PM
I am not sure why you want them not to know and to be honest Its none of my affair.
The note idea is good, maybe a printed card would work better but either gets the point across. I would hand it to him with my DL and my CCW. If the officer wants to make an issue than so be it, but I bet most would understand.
Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."
~ Thomas Jefferson
November 9th, 2007 05:07 PM
Only when armed, do you need to tell them anything about your CPL.
Under michigan law we have to inform the officer if we are armed or not when we are pulled over.
You could laminate a card stating that you would like to keep the CPL info as private as possible from the other occupants of the vehicle. Hand them that card under your CPL card, Tell them yes is the answer to the first document and would they please check your second document.
November 9th, 2007 05:30 PM
In my world, screw your coworkers, I don't care what mine think, but I won't car pool for several reasons. This card idea sounds confusing since most officers will already know when they approach your vehical and handing them a bunch of paperwork may not meet with the requirement to immediately disclose. Officer, I have a license to carry a concealed pistol and I do have a pistol with me. How do you want me to proceed with any paper work? Wait for him to state how. Reaching around behind during the stop or when he approaches, etc. will certainly cause an Officer to be be on edge. I don't blame them, just read the news. It's nice to go home at the end of your shift.
Les Baer 45
N.R.A. Patron Life Member
November 9th, 2007 07:24 PM
Maybe carrying at work is against company rules? Otherwise, unless I worked with unsavory characters, I don't care if they know I carry. That said, If I were inclined to keep it hush-hush, I think it's a good idea. Especially if you printed up a nice little laminated card. How to word it?
"I have a gun" = BAD
"Officer, I have to inform you that I have a legally concealed pistol on my right hip. I'd rather my co-workers not find out if it is possible to keep it between us." = Good (maybe not best, but doesn't come off threatening)
November 9th, 2007 08:17 PM
My whole thing is that if the OP is worried that the passengers in his car can't or won't keep their mouths shut about it, or they are suspected to be unsavory, that they shouldn't be in the car in the first place, but that's just my .02 for what it's worth.
Originally Posted by LBrombach
None of my business, but something for the OP to think about.
Rather than go through the hassle of making up a card, using the card and playing secret squirrel when stopped, don't offer rides to people you don't trust.
November 9th, 2007 08:46 PM
I believe we are in fact obligated to notify the officer we hold a ccw license (which if they run your info, they probably already know) and inform him if we are carrying or not. I teach alot of classes for ccw, and that is how I and the lawyer instruct.
Originally Posted by Super Trucker
If you get pulled over, you should...with both hands on the wheel:
1. inform the officer you are a ccw holder
2. tell him where your license, ccw license and registration is located in the car, along with the location of your firearm.
3. Ask him how he would like to proceed.
4. My personal experience and experience of other instructors I talk to (but not somthing I teach in class), is usually when the officer finds out you are a ccw holder and have a firearm in the car, unless you done something bad wrong, he will give you a warning and let you go....
5. if not...the officer will usually ask two things...
1.ask for your license, reg, and ccw license.
2.probably will ask you to step out of the car, and either ask you to stay away from your firearm...ie not open your coat etc, or even to forfeit your firearm during the traffic stop.
Hope this helps some...
IMO I feel slipping the officer a note would seem a little fishy to him and might cause more trouble than it is worth. LEO's do not like to play games with firearms, period
Last edited by snowdoctor; November 9th, 2007 at 08:56 PM.
Reason: more to add
--people ask why I carry, and I show them this picture. I think it says it all.--
NRA Certified Instructor--many disciplines
November 9th, 2007 08:57 PM
Originally Posted by JD
I generally agree with what you are saying, but I am imagining some circumstance where one couldn't avoid some people?
Let's say I chose to carry at work against the rules (not law, just rules). Sometimes we carpool from one site to another throughout the day. It'd be very out of place and suspicious if I said I didn't want to take Joe Blow with me. Not an issue for me, since I work at a university and can easilyfind myself in a classroom (off limits), so I don't carry there.
November 9th, 2007 09:22 PM
I am not sure on this, but I suspect that being presented with a random document is not something a LEO is going to appreciate. I imagine he's not interested in turning his attention toward and making sense of such a document. I would not be suprised if you handed it to him he'd ask you what it is without hardly looking at it. Other documents like license, ccw, and registrations are generally standard documents that an officer can probably glance at to get the key points he's interested in before he looks at them in more detail in his cruiser. The note would probably, as others have said seem a little fishy. I'm interested to hear how some of the member LEOs feel about this.
November 9th, 2007 10:01 PM
My mom just pins a note to my shirt, that way I dont have to speak for myself.
Really though, this has been brought up before but in a different context. That situation was abnormal.
I hate it when people start giving me all kinds of documentation for whatever that I didnt ask for and dont need... its just annoying.
Bottom line is this... Your making an something easy far to complicated. If you hand me your CCW card along with your drivers license, I'm going to assume your armed. If this concerns me for whatever reason, your coming out of the car anyway.
November 9th, 2007 10:02 PM
IMO, it is easier to state that you have a CPL and are armed than hand over a fancy note.
Here is how it went down the two times I've been pulled over. Both officers commended my on my performance and disclosure.
I am pulled over. If at night I flick on the dome light, shut the car off, and place my hands on the steering wheel. No other movements of any kind, not for license or anything else. Officer approaches my door and says his/her salutations.
I say, "Hi how are you? I have to inform you I have a concealed weapon permit and I DO have my weapon with me. It is on my right hip in a holster and it is loaded. My hands will remain on the wheel until you tell me otherwise."
They went into the usual why were you speeding stuff to which I replied honestly.
They asked for my license and I stated: "my license is in my wallet in my right rear pocket, same side as my weapon. I am going to undo my seatbelt, turn towards you and with my right hand retrieve my wallet and bring it forward towards the steering wheel. Is that OK with you?"
They said "yes, go ahead," which I did.
They checked my info handed be back my DL and after thanking me for my disclosure sent me on my way. They NEVER asked to see my CPL, nor my registration, nor my proof of insurance.
November 9th, 2007 10:04 PM
From my understanding in cop school, when the LEO runs your plate the registered owner shows up and it states "CPL applied for and approved" the registered owner has a CPL.
Now what if my wife, who doesn't have a CPL, is driving my vehicle and gets pulled over. The CPL status is linked to my vehicle that is registered in my name. They have no clue.
November 9th, 2007 10:25 PM
i actually was talking about this earlier as i often get rides home from school (500 miles) from ppl i dont know well enough to let them know im carrying.
this actually did happen to be and the cop and i managed to work it all out without everyone knowing.
i forget what exactly i decided on tho
oh and the note gets handed to them with drivers and cpl.
which i get out well b4 stopped
November 10th, 2007 09:07 AM
The procedure I use is to have your reg and proof of insurance together in a spot of your choosing so you do not need to rummage around for it.Present your license,cpl and reg/proof to the officer. He/she can ask whatever they want about the carry status.LEO's generally understand that at least in MI, if you have a cpl, you are probably less a threat to them than the general public.Follow their lead and act accordingly.Having a cpl is nothing to be ashamed of or anything that needs to be explained to anyone. It's a personal decision.
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