Had CCW Incident @ Work . . .(Long)

[SIXTO]

A little while ago, here in Ohio, a man was detained by Circuit City personnel because he refused to allow someone to look through his bag. He actually had to call the police because the store clerk and manager would not.

Let me guess... Springdale?
When did stores gain the right to search, seize, and detain at will?

Ok, I'm done....for now.

They dont, unless they can cleArly aRticulate a crime. Its as simple as it it GETs. I proved this with a certain popular anti gun department store (I wont mention the name ) after one of their loss prevention dorks tried to go hands on with me. Of course I had done nothing wrong, and they paid a price.

To the OG poster... it sounds to me as if you did break policy. I dont agree with the policy, buts thats of no matter.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[cs133atom]

I carry at work regardless of company policy. In today's climate and with a few thousand people on the premises it's like being in a small town. In my mind I'd rather be armed and fired than dead with a job if the SHTF.

[cwblanco]

Apparently you were lucky to have an employer who did not go completely nuts over the issue. On the other hand, it does appear that you talked and argued more than needed, and that alone would have gotten you fired by other companies.

By the way, I would mention that Texas is an "employment at willl" state, meaning that an employer can fire an employee without any reason whatsoever. The only exceptions are for employees covered by some union contracts, some specific contract for a specific time such as a year (rare), civil rights discrimination (race, religion, and the like), and in some instances where the employee is fired for refusing to engage in illegal conduct.

[kavity]

I think you handled everything well.


One of the only other alternatives I can think of is: telling the LP guy "tough #$^@" if he wanted to look through my stuff. Of course that would have looked suspicious and probably would have caused you to get the managers attention anyway. Legally they can't stop you and search your stuff.

Live and learn.

[kavity]

They dont, unless they can cleArly aRticulate a crime. Its as simple as it it GETs. I proved this with a certain popular anti gun department store (I wont mention the name ) after one of their loss prevention dorks tried to go hands on with me. Of course I had done nothing wrong, and they paid a price.

To the OG poster... it sounds to me as if you did break policy. I dont agree with the policy, buts thats of no matter.

even then I don't believe they can detain someone.

[credy]

Nova83tx,
For what it's worth, I would carry in a SmartCarry at that job. No one would EVER KNOW, and you could be just as... "respectful" to them as they are to you... by carrying a gun even as you smile and tell them, "No, as a matter of fact, I'm not."

+1

Concealed is concealed dude. What they don't know doesn't hurt them. Unless they have metal detectors or some crazy trash, which I highly doubt.

[Miggy]

I think we are forgetting that besides company policy, we have to deal with the mentality of the managers: If they are pro-gun, they are likely to be easier on the issue. If they are antis, you are going to have trouble. At our hotel, corporate policy clearly states that you don't have wepons on company property and their list is all inclusive. Now, a couple of managers and some associates I know have CCW and leave their guns in their cars when coming to work (This came out when talking about best method to secure a weapon inside a vehicle. They all got reccomended a C.O.M safe as a minimun plus my criticism as Security Officer for leaving a weapon avaliable to a BG by just busting a window.) We even shared tips on holsters, training and whatnots plus talked with other associates that were unclear about the whole gun business and made new converts. I can say my shift is pretty pro-gun but I also know for a fact that the morning shift is headed by a rabid anti gunner so, if I am called in early to cover, I don't even think about guns during my breaks

[Redneck Repairs]

LOL Colorado ( state of ) has a clearly stated policy that firearms ( among other things ) shall not be carried by contractors or contractor employees on state contracts such as road construction . Now on the spare time i have from ranching i am not opposed to running equipment on such stated jobsites . One of the state engineers spotted my ar in the seat of the pickup and queried me about it . It not only did not lead to a punitave action , but in fact led to a couple of fairly profitable ( for me ) gun trading sessions with him and some of the other state guys . A couple of them know i ccw , and ccw onsite which they ignore , or encorage . I work with traffic control some also and thier feeling seems to be that someone onsite needs to be armed since a lot of the " public " going down our highway are , and road rage on a flagger is a common occurance .

[bzdog]

FWIW, don't argue with them about whether you broke the rules or not. You might try to add a little spin, but not too heavy: 'I understand I can't carry at work and so I was taking it out to my car to be in compliance with the rules.'.

Your best bet IMO is to get them to feel it was just a misunderstanding which is now cleared up and won't happen again: 'I just wanted to have some privacy to change. I thought it would be OK because I wasn't on the clock. It's not? Oh, sorry, I won't do that then.'.

Of course, it's water under the bridge now, and there is a good chance it wouldn't have made a difference.

In the end tho, if you break policy, you have to be ready to take your lumps.

Hopefully this is the end of it.

-john

[Bonesnofoa]

I'd probably quit, to many people know you carry.

4 people in the store now know, and pretty soon everybody is gonna hear about it.

[peacefuljeffrey]

You're in the mens room and he wanted to search your jeans?

I know a US Senator that didn't even go that far that wound up in jail.
I would have called the cops or punched him out.

If you're off the clock LP has no more authority over you than any other customer.
And that's none!!
You want to detain me call a cop. You touch me and it's battery.

I looked up stuff about that in Florida law (online) and it sure does seem that someone acting on behalf of a retailer can attempt to detain a would-be thief.

I used to think that they would be guilty of battery if they put hands on you, but according to what I read, that's not necessarily the case.

I'd probably quit, to many people know you carry.

4 people in the store now know, and pretty soon everybody is gonna hear about it.

Not to mention that he'll never be trusted again;
that he has an obvious anti-gun, anti-self-defense, anti-CCW manager who doesn't like him, now;
that the corporate masters don't give a for his safety, just their "cash business"...

The thing to have done would have been to carry and keep quiet about it; but at this point, that's just air through the engine.

I would not keep that job. They are HOSTILE to his right to self defense. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if I had to kiss to keep working at a place that was so contemptuous of what is right, moral, and legal.

[Supertac45]

Sounds like it ended okay for you.

[Sarge45]

What you encountered was a "zero tolerance" mentality. This mentality has no room for common sense and is based simply on a one-size-fits-all recipe. It removes any effort to think an issue through and act on it's own merits. It's part of the "dumbing down" of this nation.

If they reject your logic, that's on them. End any further discussion about your right to carry unless they approach you about it. Otherwise, don't throw pearls before swine.

[hsuCowboy98]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
They dont, unless they can cleArly aRticulate a crime. Its as simple as it it GETs. I proved this with a certain popular anti gun department store (I wont mention the name ) after one of their loss prevention dorks tried to go hands on with me. Of course I had done nothing wrong, and they paid a price.

To the OG poster... it sounds to me as if you did break policy. I dont agree with the policy, buts thats of no matter.
even then I don't believe they can detain someone.


In the State of Texas, any person can detain a person to prevent the consequences of theft. This includes citizens and LP that have a reasonable suspicion that theft is occurring in their presence.

"Art. 18.16. [325] [376] [364] PREVENTING CONSEQUENCES OF
THEFT. Any person has a right to prevent the consequences of theft
by seizing any personal property that has been stolen and bringing
it, with the person suspected of committing the theft, if that
person can be taken, before a magistrate for examination, or
delivering the property and the person suspected of committing the
theft to a peace officer for that purpose. To justify a seizure
under this article, there must be reasonable ground to believe the
property is stolen, and the seizure must be openly made and the
proceedings had without delay."

The argument would be if he had a reasonable suspicion to detain or frisk the clothing. I seriously doubt if the average LP person would have the knowledge to articulate their reasonable suspicion though if it were challenged.

[fsilber]

It may not be their choice. An anti-gun policy may be required by their insurance company. The current anti-CCW strategy is for anti-gun lawyers to get insurance companies to mandate this upon all employers -- even in parking lots. That way, the permits become unusable most of the time.

I once had a pro-gun employer who discovered that the office building's rental agreement prohibited guns. I asked him whether the office building's policy mandated that renters fire employees for a first offense. He said they didn't specify any punishment, only that he couldn't permit it. I asked him, "What would be the punishment for getting caught -- first offense?" I looked at me, smiled, and said, "I guess a first offense would warrant a stern reprimand!" (I took that to mean that I could carry, but if I did anything to destroy his ability to claim he was unaware of it, I would have to stop.) I told friends, "My boss and I strongly disagree on the handgun issue. He doesn't believe the right ammo can make a 9mm as good as a .45acp.") :-)

I live in a different city now, and the one disadvantage of my current job is that they have a no-tolerance policy, including their huge parking lots, and the mean it. And the new job is so good, I'm not willing to risk it.