Post-Shooting Assessment (I know this issue has been beaten to death but good read)

Post-Shooting Assessment (I know this issue has been beaten to death but good read)

This is a discussion on Post-Shooting Assessment (I know this issue has been beaten to death but good read) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; POST-SHOOTING ASSESSMENT * Why and how * by Kim Foster Here's the scenario: you've just been forced to shoot an attacker in a public venue. ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array CelticWolf's Avatar
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    Post-Shooting Assessment (I know this issue has been beaten to death but good read)

    POST-SHOOTING ASSESSMENT
    * Why and how *

    by Kim Foster

    Here's the scenario: you've just been forced to shoot an attacker in a public venue. Parking lot, store, whatever. Anybody with any training knows that after you neutralize the threat, you wait for the police to arrive. If you are a law enforcement officer, you wait for more cops to arrive. There is, however, one important thing you need to do immediately after the shooting to insure your survival...a Post-shooting assessment. Incorporated in your post-shooting assessment should be a 360 degree scan of the area, looking for additional threats. Never assume your attacker was acting alone.

    My Post Shooting Assessment is prioritized as follows:
    The attacker--did I hit him, is he down?
    A loud statement along the lines of "I shot in self-defense, call the police!"
    Additional threats, are there any? (Perform 360 scan)
    My gun, does it need reloading?
    Myself, am I hit or injured?

    The 360 Scan: to an extent, your environment will dictate your tactics. Here are a couple techniques that should be adequate for most situations:
    If you cannot, or choose not, to move to cover, assess to your front, in the direction of the threat and to your right and left as far as you can without breaking your shooting platform. Assuming a right-handed shooter with the threat at twelve o'clock, this should take you clockwise from twelve to about five and then counter-clockwise past twelve to about eight. I refer to this as the frontal scan. Pivot left to nine o'clock, so that your left shoulder is now pointed to what was your six. This will allow you to continue checking from eight, counter-clockwise around to five o'clock. If you observe threats, deal with them as appropriate. This enables you to conduct a 360 scan without completely turning your back on your original threat or losing visual contact with him for more than a couple seconds. This method provides a very rapid view of your surroundings but does leave you exposed to incoming fire.
    After neutralizing the threat, it is probably a good idea to move immediately to cover and then conduct the 360 scan from this position. If you find yourself in a kneeling position, think of your knees as your feet and adapt the method used above. This technique gets you moving as quickly as possible after shooting. A moving target is harder for your opponent to hit, if there are additional threats. It places you in a more defendable location from threats to your front. However, if there are additional threats behind you, you may inadvertently move to a position that gives them an advantage.

    While conducting the frontal scan (twelve to five back to eight o'clock) your pistol should be in a low ready position. You should be looking over the sights, not through them. The pistol should be low enough so you can see the hands of anyone that may be a threat. As you turn to check your rear, move the pistol to a compressed indoor ready position (forearms high on your stomach, muzzle pointed about four feet in front of your toes), a retention position, or position SUL (left side of weapon placed on the back of the non-shooting hand. Non-shooting hand sandwiched between pistol and your stomach with your thumbs touching). This is done for two reasons:
    It facilitates weapon retention, making it harder for someone behind you to grab your gun.
    It makes you appear less threatening to bystanders. This is important because most people, even CCW license holders and off-duty police officers walk around in Cooper's "Condition White", oblivious to what's going on around them. They weren't paying attention, so they didn't hear or see you try to de-escalate the situation. All they see is someone who just shot someone and appears to be looking for another target so they draw down on you. And you thought your day couldn't get any worse!

    Perform the scan rapidly so you aren't caught unaware by additional adversaries but focus on what your doing. If you make eye contact with bystanders, you will appear more threatening and that may not be a good thing. The hands are the threat indicators, focus on their hands. That guy with his hand behind his back, is he holding a gun or shielding a child?

    Once you have determined there are no more threats, place your weapon back in your holster and again state that you shot in self-defense and need the police. Also call 911 yourself.

    This is the method I've come up with after a lot of thought and research and some force on force. I welcome your questions and comments and opinions here on the forum.
    Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about seeking whom he may devour. 1 Peter 5:8


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    New Member Array gr84x4's Avatar
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    What about providing first aid to the down and out attacker? Does this show guilt or remorse? Or does this show that you needed to stop a threat to save your life, and now that you have done so you can render first aid?

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gr84x4 View Post
    What about providing first aid to the down and out attacker? Does this show guilt or remorse? Or does this show that you need to stop a threat to save your life, and now that you have done so you can render first aid?
    After being assaulted severely enough that you had to use force, lethal or otherwise, do you really feel you are in a position to render aid to anyone in a competent manner?

    Shouldn't you be checking yourself for injuries and attending to those you find?

    You are going to have your hands full already.

  4. #4
    New Member Array gr84x4's Avatar
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    I do not think I would provide first aid. I was just asking. If someone forced me to break leather and engage them, then I only care about my well being and ensuring they are stopped. I often hear about people feeling they have the duty to provide first aid. The first duty is personal/family well being.

  5. #5
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    Help The BG - No Way.

    Not unless you graduated from Medical School and swore to uphold the Hippocratic Oath.
    Never render First Aid or Medical Assistance to an incapacitated downed deadly threat.
    It is not your responsibility to try and save the life of a person that just attempted to end yours.
    Call 911 - request Paramedics.
    Just my personal opinion.
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  6. #6
    Member Array Hoozyerdaddy's Avatar
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    QKShooter hit the nail on the head there. Just think if you tried to give first aid and weren't trained to, ya might get bit in the butt later by a prosecuter. They even could go as far as to paint you as a gun toting vigilante that was making sure your latest kill was final, that way the notch can be put on your belt. Not to mention if he/she was ever shot and the shooter came up to close they might use their dieing breath to take their shooter with them.
    "Fear is nothing more than an emotional response to the perception of danger coupled with the belief that I can't handle it."
    "If you change that belief to 'I can handle it', you'll no longer experience FEAR. You'll simply see what you are facing is a challenge... an opportunity to test yourself.

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    VIP Member Array glock27mark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    Not unless you graduated from Medical School and swore to uphold the Hippocratic Oath.
    Never render First Aid or Medical Assistance to an incapacitated downed deadly threat.
    It is not your responsibility to try and save the life of a person that just attempted to end yours.
    Call 911 - request Paramedics.
    Just my personal opinion.
    well said, why offer aid and
    possibly put youself in a position where the bg could finish what
    he set out to do in the first place.
    (SHERIFF BUFORD T. JUSTICE) "what the hell is
    the world coming too"

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gr84x4 View Post
    What about providing first aid to the down and out attacker? Does this show guilt or remorse?
    It shows blinding disregard for one's own life. "Down and out," eh? Who says he is? I'm not a doctor or EMT, so I wouldn't know. Disarming, occupying both my hands and attention, and getting within contact distances of someone who just tried to kill me sounds a bevel off of plumb, to me. Inbound LEO's and medical attention can attend to that problem. Me, I'm staying at a distance to continue to guard against a still-alive threat that just proved how threatening he could be.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Array bobcat35's Avatar
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    i was trained to treat any wound you come across or create regardless of who. makes sense as you can't put a dead guy in jail(he'll stink the place up). besides i always go to make sure they aren't armed anyway because they might try useing their last breath to shoot me so from there its too easy to put a feild dressing on a decent grouping and call the paramedics. not that im saying everyone should but if they aren't dead you should do up to what your trained on never more.
    "Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result."
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  10. #10
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    A downed BG who needs medical assistance? I'll 'mail' a letter...seeking help for the dirtbag...

    I'm not going near the BG...once down, that's where he/she is staying. I'll let the police make the decision on what aid to provide.

    Stay armed...stay safe!
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  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Too big a tactical risk. Now you are within reach of him. He could be playing 'possum and grab your gun while you plug his leaks. Even if he is really out, you still need to be focused on looking for new threats. His homeys could show up at any moment. Sure, have someone call 911, but you keep your guard up.
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  12. #12
    Member Array airbornerangerboogie's Avatar
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    If you've ever shot or seen someone shot "not on tv mind you", unless you've hit a vital organ, the assailant may still be a conscious and/or a threat. I'd make sure that they're
    * not carrying a backup and that their weapon isn't reachable,
    * a 360 degree "visual" sweep of the immediate area, I say visual because you don't want to be running around in combat mode when the LPO arrives.
    * I would call 911 explain "very briefly" you were attacked and defended yourself, the perp is down send the paramedics. In the mean time is there anything you can do. Most Ex-military should know basic 1st aid, "stop the bleeding...etc". The last thing I want the LPO's to see when they arrive on scene is me standing over or next to someone watching them bleed out with my bullet(s) them, no matter how justified I was in shooting them.
    “Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.” James Dean
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  13. #13
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobcat35 View Post
    i was trained to treat any wound you come across or create regardless of who.
    Even if it kills you?

    A person who has attempted to terminate your life has just been downed, has not yet succeeded and is still breathing. Think about that. That person is still capable of going for a hidden weapon, or taking yours when you disarm to free your hands for the good sam two-step. I'm all for helping those in need, but frankly someone who has so recently attempted to take all I have (my life) has forfeited the urgent and miraculous efforts he might have otherwise been entitled to expect.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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    Quote Originally Posted by gr84x4 View Post
    What about providing first aid to the down and out attacker? Does this show guilt or remorse? Or does this show that you needed to stop a threat to save your life, and now that you have done so you can render first aid?
    It shows compassion, and that's a very good thing to be seen having!

    The one thing I would add to this "post shooting" scenario is, as you bring your weapon back to your body, if it is equipped with a de cocker or safety, I think this is when you should de cock or put the safety on prior to re holstering.
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

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  15. #15
    New Member Array EMT007's Avatar
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    I'm not sure what everyone thinks about this view, but as an EMT, my UT CCW instructor told me that I should never attempt to render aid to someone I had just shot because if he died, it would be construed in court as "he has the training/knowledge to make sure that the suspect died (i.e. he finished the job)". He said to just stand back and wait for the on duty guys to show up and transport. Now, granted, the vast majority of gunshot wounds are not fatal, but this is an interesting idea.

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