November 21st, 2007 01:40 PM
I just had a thought:
1. Look up the average response time for the LEO's in your area (can usually be found on their website).
2. Time yourself walking in the front door (assuming there is someone there that sees the BG with gun and lives long enough to call 911) and pausing for 5 seconds at each desk as you walk around your office.
3. Note how far you get.
My office is very small, and in the 4 minutes and 37 seconds that it may take for a LEO to show up the office can be covered almost 1.5 times (that includes break room and conference/classroom). This assumes that the BG knows where he's going and where people can be found.
This could be a great way to get your management thinking about the issue. Or it might just make them dig their heels in and "stick to their guns" even more. Either way, you at least have an idea of where the cops might be when the BG passes your desk.
In my case, 2 lights and half a parking lot away
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
NRA Life Member
November 21st, 2007 01:45 PM
Boy howdy, I am sure glad I do not work for anyone! Dunno how y'all do it! Good luck and stay awake and keep your eyes peeled!
November 21st, 2007 01:46 PM
1) Carry a 10 pack of industrial zip ties. You can effectively band outward opening doors shut with them.
Originally Posted by grady
2) Dollar General has a $2 2-pack of rubber door wedges. Well worth it.
Both of the above fit easily and unobtrusively in a lunch cooler-bag or soft briefcase.
3) "Call them." Send Admn. an email expressing your concern, and request a drill. Either way, you're CYA.
4) Be realistic in your Personal Risk Assessment. Yeah, bad stuff happens everywhere. Some workplaces are more secure than others. If you feel your PRA to be high, you have a personal choice to make. Keep your head down and your mouth shut. The last item is what causes problems for most people.
It may sound cold blooded, but remember: other people have made choices for you. Who/what/where something is happening is always a determining factor for me personally. (Ie, if you hear "pops" in the Admn office, I would occupy myself in getting myself out, vs worrying about slowing/stopping a shooter. The same reasoning has applied in providing aid to someone bleeding when I don't have PPE... you better be a friend and clean-cut.)
November 21st, 2007 01:55 PM
Remember the pizza guy who was fired for defending himself?
This posting reminded me of the story of Ron Honeycutt, who worked for Pizza Hut and was fired for successfully defending his life with a legally carried CCW gun:
Pizza Hut delivery driver Ronald Honeycutt shot and killed Jerome Brown-Dancler after Brown-Dancler approached him with a gun. Honeycutt, who had a Right-to-Carry permit, then picked up Brown-Dancler’s gun, put it in his van and returned to the Pizza Hut, where he asked his manager to call the police.
Honeycutt was not charged in Brown-Dancler’s death. In fact, Marion County Deputy Prosecutor Barb Crawford told the Indianapolis Star that the shooting was “a clear case of self-defense. He (Honeycutt) did what the law allows him to do to protect himself.”
In spite of the fact that Ron Honeycutt most likely saved his own life, Pizza Hut fired him for breaking company policy. You see, Pizza Hut policy forbids drivers to carry firearms—even if they are legally entitled to do so and use them to save their own lives.
Complete story of Pizza Hut delivery man defending himself
November 21st, 2007 02:48 PM
My company recently went through this drill of what to do if there was an armed intruder on company property. One of the Vice Presidents said we should do nothing to agitate the gunman but if he started shooting we were to run away. Everyone at the meeting started nodding their heads and I said out loud, "I doubt any of us here can out run a bullet." There was immediate silence as they all looked at me, then they continued with the meeting.
November 21st, 2007 03:40 PM
"The administrator said, "The police will be here like that", giving a finger snap. Yeah, right..." Ask him to test this response time he thinks will happen so fast. Put together a scenario were you as a gunman walks in and starts shooting people. Have an employee stationed at the end of the block acting as and LEO waiting for a call from the receptionist, (by the way, shoot her first). Then see how many employees are killed using their plan before you are apprehended by the fake cop once he gets the call. You can't get much faster than that for response time. I'll bet you can kill a dozen people before help arrives.
DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.
Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit
NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Insrtuctor
Utah Permit Certified Instructor
November 21st, 2007 09:44 PM
Wow that's a pretty awesome policy. I wonder who came up with it? I'd like to shake their hand. "Congratulations, you're an idiot."
November 21st, 2007 09:53 PM
November 21st, 2007 10:14 PM
Another idea similar to this would be to show her a timeline of events during the VT shooting. They had SWAT TEAMS ON STANDBY--ON CAMPUS. It took them2-3 minutes to respond, 3-4 minutes to get into the building, and by that time Cho had KILLED 32 people and wounded dozens of others (btw Cho got 28 headshots...not because he was a marksman but because he went back and shot all of the wounded people in the head that were laying on the ground because no one in that building could stop him).
Originally Posted by havegunjoe
Still the response time in this case was probably the best it could have been...and still 32 people died.
edit: BTW VT has posted their plan on the wall of every classroom now. IT consists of calling 911 and locking your doors. But its a gun-free zone so I don't have to worry about that kinda stuff happening again, right?
November 21st, 2007 10:34 PM
Actually, I having a piss-poor plan is worse than no plan at all. No plan at all leaves the folks in the building to use their brain and make their own decisions on an as needed basis.
Originally Posted by Thumper
A piss-poor plan gets them dead for following the piss-poor plan that puts them in harms way.
"My God David, We're a Civilized society."
"Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
-The Mist (2007)
November 21st, 2007 10:35 PM
+10 on that,people that i work with would think i had gone insane if they knew i carried.far better that i be a drug addict than carry a gun for defense.
Originally Posted by Tangle
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.”
― Thomas Paine
November 21st, 2007 10:47 PM
Thanks for all your great comments. I knew their plan was stupid, but I don't feel so alone now. There are hundreds of employees, yet I cannot discuss this with any of them.
I always have the option to quit, but it's a good job, and concealed is concealed. Besides, I have my own contingency plan--if I cannot escape, my plan starts with step XD and ends with step S&W. I'm not doing the firing squad routine.
Knowing that I and I alone am responsible for my security keeps me alert. Also, knowing I am fired if I print, keeps me alert. It's good training in situational awareness and concealment procedures.
Thanks for all your great comments.
November 21st, 2007 11:10 PM
Originally Posted by packinnova
ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!
"A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
November 21st, 2007 11:49 PM
Two words legal liability. I would love to see several large important corporations get put out of business after preventing their employees from defending themselves and then have an employee win a multimillion dollar lawsuit against the corporation after a BG shot up a few employees and a CCW owner had been prevented from protecting themselves because of company policy.
Sure makes me glad I'm self-employed. I feel so sorry for those that are made defenseless by company policy or in the case of my civil service employed wife she was disarmed by the federal government.
Life member NRA since 1983
I carry a Kimber Ultra Carry II in a Crossbreed SuperTuck. My wife carries a Walther PPS .40 w/Crossbreed holster.
November 22nd, 2007 01:39 AM
The Phone company I used to work for has a no weapons policy,I always carried . I also bought Fire arms and Swords for my collections and brought them to work and kept them there untill it was time to go home. The Security guards are unarmed, and they never check your packages, just your ID.
Whenever they downsize people the people are escorted by 2 or more security out the door, management then packs your things and has them delivered to you out of the building. The last time they downsized Managers the upper Management had armed Bodygaurds in the building near their offices. But regular employees arn't allowed to carry.
Also they would freak out if you carried a 3 1/2 inch "Tactical Knife" in your pocket, but it was OK to have a 8 inch Butcher Knife to cut cake for a party.
Management never seem to have any braines or common sence.
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