Rant about workplace policy for armed assailant in company building - Page 2

Rant about workplace policy for armed assailant in company building

This is a discussion on Rant about workplace policy for armed assailant in company building within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I just had a thought: 1. Look up the average response time for the LEO's in your area (can usually be found on their website). ...

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 54

Thread: Rant about workplace policy for armed assailant in company building

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array lacrosse50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    SW Ohio
    Posts
    1,283
    I just had a thought:
    1. Look up the average response time for the LEO's in your area (can usually be found on their website).

    2. Time yourself walking in the front door (assuming there is someone there that sees the BG with gun and lives long enough to call 911) and pausing for 5 seconds at each desk as you walk around your office.

    3. Note how far you get.

    My office is very small, and in the 4 minutes and 37 seconds that it may take for a LEO to show up the office can be covered almost 1.5 times (that includes break room and conference/classroom). This assumes that the BG knows where he's going and where people can be found.

    This could be a great way to get your management thinking about the issue. Or it might just make them dig their heels in and "stick to their guns" even more. Either way, you at least have an idea of where the cops might be when the BG passes your desk.

    In my case, 2 lights and half a parking lot away
    The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
    -Herbert Spencer

    NRA Life Member


  2. #17
    Senior Member Array DrLewall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Drakes Creek, AR
    Posts
    958
    Boy howdy, I am sure glad I do not work for anyone! Dunno how y'all do it! Good luck and stay awake and keep your eyes peeled!

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    OK
    Posts
    3,468
    Quote Originally Posted by grady View Post
    1)Many office doors do not lock.

    2)Most office furniture is on wheels, so anything rolled in front of the door can easily be pushed out of the way.

    3)The administrator said, "The police will be here like that", giving a finger snap. Yeh, right...
    1) Carry a 10 pack of industrial zip ties. You can effectively band outward opening doors shut with them.

    2) Dollar General has a $2 2-pack of rubber door wedges. Well worth it.

    Both of the above fit easily and unobtrusively in a lunch cooler-bag or soft briefcase.

    3) "Call them." Send Admn. an email expressing your concern, and request a drill. Either way, you're CYA.

    4) Be realistic in your Personal Risk Assessment. Yeah, bad stuff happens everywhere. Some workplaces are more secure than others. If you feel your PRA to be high, you have a personal choice to make. Keep your head down and your mouth shut. The last item is what causes problems for most people.

    It may sound cold blooded, but remember: other people have made choices for you. Who/what/where something is happening is always a determining factor for me personally. (Ie, if you hear "pops" in the Admn office, I would occupy myself in getting myself out, vs worrying about slowing/stopping a shooter. The same reasoning has applied in providing aid to someone bleeding when I don't have PPE... you better be a friend and clean-cut.)

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array pogo2's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Southwest
    Posts
    3,149

    Remember the pizza guy who was fired for defending himself?

    This posting reminded me of the story of Ron Honeycutt, who worked for Pizza Hut and was fired for successfully defending his life with a legally carried CCW gun:

    Pizza Hut delivery driver Ronald Honeycutt shot and killed Jerome Brown-Dancler after Brown-Dancler approached him with a gun. Honeycutt, who had a Right-to-Carry permit, then picked up Brown-Dancler’s gun, put it in his van and returned to the Pizza Hut, where he asked his manager to call the police.
    Honeycutt was not charged in Brown-Dancler’s death. In fact, Marion County Deputy Prosecutor Barb Crawford told the Indianapolis Star that the shooting was “a clear case of self-defense. He (Honeycutt) did what the law allows him to do to protect himself.”
    In spite of the fact that Ron Honeycutt most likely saved his own life, Pizza Hut fired him for breaking company policy. You see, Pizza Hut policy forbids drivers to carry firearms—even if they are legally entitled to do so and use them to save their own lives.

    Complete story of Pizza Hut delivery man defending himself

  5. #20
    Member Array Arisin Wind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    450
    My company recently went through this drill of what to do if there was an armed intruder on company property. One of the Vice Presidents said we should do nothing to agitate the gunman but if he started shooting we were to run away. Everyone at the meeting started nodding their heads and I said out loud, "I doubt any of us here can out run a bullet." There was immediate silence as they all looked at me, then they continued with the meeting.

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    2,206
    "The administrator said, "The police will be here like that", giving a finger snap. Yeah, right..." Ask him to test this response time he thinks will happen so fast. Put together a scenario were you as a gunman walks in and starts shooting people. Have an employee stationed at the end of the block acting as and LEO waiting for a call from the receptionist, (by the way, shoot her first). Then see how many employees are killed using their plan before you are apprehended by the fake cop once he gets the call. You can't get much faster than that for response time. I'll bet you can kill a dozen people before help arrives.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

    Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit
    NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Insrtuctor
    Utah Permit Certified Instructor

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array aus71383's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    2,543
    Wow that's a pretty awesome policy. I wonder who came up with it? I'd like to shake their hand. "Congratulations, you're an idiot."

    Austin

  8. #23
    VIP Member
    Array Thumper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    7,294
    Well I'm really bummed now!

    Not only does my company not allow any weapons... they don't even have a plan!

    Of course, a plan like your company has is about as worthless as the plan we don't have!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

  9. #24
    Senior Member Array kavity's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    614
    Quote Originally Posted by havegunjoe View Post
    "The administrator said, "The police will be here like that", giving a finger snap. Yeah, right..." Ask him to test this response time he thinks will happen so fast. Put together a scenario were you as a gunman walks in and starts shooting people. Have an employee stationed at the end of the block acting as and LEO waiting for a call from the receptionist, (by the way, shoot her first). Then see how many employees are killed using their plan before you are apprehended by the fake cop once he gets the call. You can't get much faster than that for response time. I'll bet you can kill a dozen people before help arrives.
    Another idea similar to this would be to show her a timeline of events during the VT shooting. They had SWAT TEAMS ON STANDBY--ON CAMPUS. It took them2-3 minutes to respond, 3-4 minutes to get into the building, and by that time Cho had KILLED 32 people and wounded dozens of others (btw Cho got 28 headshots...not because he was a marksman but because he went back and shot all of the wounded people in the head that were laying on the ground because no one in that building could stop him).

    Still the response time in this case was probably the best it could have been...and still 32 people died.


    edit: BTW VT has posted their plan on the wall of every classroom now. IT consists of calling 911 and locking your doors. But its a gun-free zone so I don't have to worry about that kinda stuff happening again, right?

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    4,297
    Quote Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
    Well I'm really bummed now!

    Not only does my company not allow any weapons... they don't even have a plan!

    Of course, a plan like your company has is about as worthless as the plan we don't have!
    Actually, I having a piss-poor plan is worse than no plan at all. No plan at all leaves the folks in the building to use their brain and make their own decisions on an as needed basis.
    A piss-poor plan gets them dead for following the piss-poor plan that puts them in harms way.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array stormbringerr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Republic of Texas
    Posts
    2,207
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    I hear ya! People seem to be far more frightened of good men with guns than being attacked by BGs with guns.

    You said/did about all you could.
    +10 on that,people that i work with would think i had gone insane if they knew i carried.far better that i be a drug addict than carry a gun for defense.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.”
    ― Thomas Paine

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Near St. Louis, Missouri
    Posts
    2,837
    Thanks for all your great comments. I knew their plan was stupid, but I don't feel so alone now. There are hundreds of employees, yet I cannot discuss this with any of them.

    I always have the option to quit, but it's a good job, and concealed is concealed. Besides, I have my own contingency plan--if I cannot escape, my plan starts with step XD and ends with step S&W. I'm not doing the firing squad routine.

    Knowing that I and I alone am responsible for my security keeps me alert. Also, knowing I am fired if I print, keeps me alert. It's good training in situational awareness and concealment procedures.

    Thanks for all your great comments.

  13. #28
    VIP Member
    Array Thumper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    7,294
    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    Actually, I having a piss-poor plan is worse than no plan at all. No plan at all leaves the folks in the building to use their brain and make their own decisions on an as needed basis.
    A piss-poor plan gets them dead for following the piss-poor plan that puts them in harms way.

    That's true!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

  14. #29
    Senior Member Array ridurall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    SW Oklahoma
    Posts
    766
    Two words legal liability. I would love to see several large important corporations get put out of business after preventing their employees from defending themselves and then have an employee win a multimillion dollar lawsuit against the corporation after a BG shot up a few employees and a CCW owner had been prevented from protecting themselves because of company policy.

    Sure makes me glad I'm self-employed. I feel so sorry for those that are made defenseless by company policy or in the case of my civil service employed wife she was disarmed by the federal government.
    Life member NRA since 1983
    I carry a Kimber Ultra Carry II in a Crossbreed SuperTuck. My wife carries a Walther PPS .40 w/Crossbreed holster.

  15. #30
    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    washington
    Posts
    4,849
    The Phone company I used to work for has a no weapons policy,I always carried . I also bought Fire arms and Swords for my collections and brought them to work and kept them there untill it was time to go home. The Security guards are unarmed, and they never check your packages, just your ID.

    Whenever they downsize people the people are escorted by 2 or more security out the door, management then packs your things and has them delivered to you out of the building. The last time they downsized Managers the upper Management had armed Bodygaurds in the building near their offices. But regular employees arn't allowed to carry.

    Also they would freak out if you carried a 3 1/2 inch "Tactical Knife" in your pocket, but it was OK to have a 8 inch Butcher Knife to cut cake for a party.
    Management never seem to have any braines or common sence.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Help me re-write our "Weapon Free Workplace" company policy!
    By Team140 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: April 20th, 2014, 08:29 PM
  2. Bad: New Company Policy
    By BugDude in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: June 9th, 2010, 10:10 PM
  3. No charges for LA man who killed armed assailant
    By DaveH in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: January 23rd, 2009, 01:49 PM
  4. Need opinions on company policy
    By roadrat52 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: February 20th, 2008, 07:30 AM
  5. Another workplace policy interpretation
    By rwojcik in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: September 20th, 2007, 11:56 AM

Search tags for this page

company policy for dealing with armed assailants

,

dealing with an armed assailant

Click on a term to search for related topics.