Poll: When do you feel lethal force is justified?

This is a discussion on Poll: When do you feel lethal force is justified? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I voted rape. This is the point at which I would employ lethal force. This doesn't mean that other levels of response are not justified ...

View Poll Results: When is your use of lethal force justified?

Voters
177. You may not vote on this poll
  • Disrespectful glance, speech or behavior.

    4 2.26%
  • Highly insulting, lewd or disgusting behavior.

    2 1.13%
  • Furtive movement.

    0 0%
  • Theft, low-cost.

    5 2.82%
  • Theft, high-cost.

    3 1.69%
  • Burglary, including B&E to get there.

    32 18.08%
  • Threatening speech or behavior.

    8 4.52%
  • Assault and battery against someone else.

    27 15.25%
  • Assault and battery against you.

    43 24.29%
  • Robbery against someone else.

    5 2.82%
  • Robbery against you.

    6 3.39%
  • Rape.

    12 6.78%
  • Attempted Murder.

    25 14.12%
  • Murder.

    5 2.82%
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 67

Thread: Poll: When do you feel lethal force is justified?

  1. #31
    Member Array BlackBear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    184
    I voted rape.

    This is the point at which I would employ lethal force. This doesn't mean that other levels of response are not justified for lesser crimes. lscurrier I agree with you that we shouldn't let thieves (or any criminals) get away with any crime, no matter the magnitude. That being said, I don't believe that all crimes are necessarily deserving of lethal force. The gun is only one tool in the toolbox. For the lesser crimes - well, that's why they make collapsible batons. (and sticks, and pens, and shoelaces, and paperweights shaped conspicuously like brass knuckles, and electrical cords, etc.)
    I would love to change the world, but they won't give me the source code

    Semper Vigilans et Paratus

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #32
    Member Array BlackBear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    184
    Quote Originally Posted by P7fanatic View Post
    RAPE? Of oneself or of another?
    Uh.....does it matter? I think the "of oneself answer" is pretty obvious. To me, the "of another answer" is pretty obvious too. If I happened upon a rape (and could ascertain that a rape was in fact in progress) then you're damned straight I would employ anything necessary, up to and including lethal force, to stop it.

    Caveat: I would do this while adhering to any and all applicable laws, which at this time in my state to the best of my knowledge allows lethal force in defense of a rape. Damn the statutes and their cross-referencing. *grumbles off to double-check statutes*
    I would love to change the world, but they won't give me the source code

    Semper Vigilans et Paratus

  4. #33
    VIP Member
    Array Echo_Four's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Land of the mostly free
    Posts
    2,624
    Won't vote because the poll doesn't work for me. Burglary with B&E is more than enough for me to decide to use deadly force if happens to be my home and I am home or come home while the criminal is in my home. Sorry, but if you've broken into my home I am going to assume you did so with the intent of doing great bodily harm to me and/or my family.

    However, that is followed in the poll by threatening speech. You can say anything you want to me, until you take some sort of action towards me, I don't really care.
    "The only people I like besides my wife and children are Marines."
    - Lt. Col. Oliver North

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    3,407
    Colorado's definition of "Bodily harm or Injury" is vague and changes the higher up the legal ladder you go depending on the view of the person making the decision at the time. I.E. The officer may agree that any injury sustained even a scratch constitutes bodily harm. The DA may disagree and file charges, then the Judge and or Jury then makes the decision what bodily harm is.

    I did vote assault against me. I do not look for fights, and do what I can to avoid them. If they are dumb enough to continue to come at me after I clearly state my intention NOT to get into it, that they should walk away, and draw my weapon to emphasize the point, then I am in fear of my life. I have met the criteria of retreat to the wall.

    As for situations NOT involving me, I stay out of it and dial 911. Even if I am there from the start, I still do not know of any history behind the subjects.

    B&E into another's property, unless I know them REAL well, (close friend or neighbor, or have been specifically asked to watch the property by the owner), 911 and let the police deal with it.

  6. #35
    Senior Member Array coffeecup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Cadiz,Ky
    Posts
    967
    The poll is flawed. We can only vote for one and here in Ky there are many options to choose from regarding the use of deadly force.

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    24,161
    Quote Originally Posted by coffeecup View Post
    The poll is flawed. We can only vote for one and here in Ky there are many options to choose from regarding the use of deadly force.
    The question isn't about what your state allows. It's about what you think. It's about where you would draw the line, about specifying the point beyond which you would not allow a criminal to go.

    In the same manner in which crimes and punishments are classified on a scale, essentially, as misdemanors or felonies, low-grade to violent/heinous, the structure of this poll follows that same basic layout, yes. It's based on the assumption that, when it comes down to it, most folks choose a point that represents the limit of what they'll allow a criminal to do.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    2,087
    Quote Originally Posted by lscurrier View Post
    I answered how I believe it should be - not what the laws of my state require.

    I selected:

    Theft, low-cost

    as I believe it is unreasonable to require honest people to submit to the will of criminals. Must I let a thief take what is mine because it falls below a certain dollar value even as I stand armed before him and have the means to apprehend him - and if necessary hurt (kill) him if he resists.

    I believe that by letting thieves get away with even the smallest of crimes we allow crime to happen rather than making a strong statement that crime is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

    If a thief dies as a result of his actions then he has made the choice that got him what he received.

    NOTE: I will follow the laws of the state that I am in, but this is how I feel.

    Luke
    I agree. It's shame the states don't recognize stealing as the infringement of your individual rights that it is.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

  9. #38
    VIP Member Array friesepferd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    east TN
    Posts
    2,341
    i dont think these are quite in the right order:
    Burglary, including B&E to get there.
    Threatening speech or behavior.

    i think B&E is more threatening then 'threatening speech'
    heck, in most states if there is B&E you may use lethal force.
    but defiantly not just because of behavior.

  10. #39
    Member Array Wolf357's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    292
    I couldn't vote in the poll because in my view lethal force is justified only against those immediately involved in the commission of a violent felony. Not before the fact. And not after the fact. But only during the commission.

    If a home burglary transpires while the lawful resident is present, this constitutes the commission of a violent felony by the perpetrator... In other words, their hindquarters are mine!
    And Jesus said, "If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." (Luke 22:36)

    I am a peaceful man. But I am not a pacifist.

  11. #40
    Moderator
    Array Rock and Glock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Colorado at 35,670'
    Posts
    11,569
    I couldn't vote because I don't want to spend the time articulating the answers to make anyone, especially a prosecutor, "happy".
    Richard

    NRA Life Member

    "But if they don't exist, how can a man see them?"

    "You may think I'm pompous, but actually I'm pedantic... let me explain the difference."

    "Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything."

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    5,133
    I refuse to vote since the internet can and has come back to bite folks on the butt in court . Use of lethal force is a complex enough issue that no one answer will cover the vast number of scenarios where it may be justified and moral as well as legal . I will say that i will use the appropriate amount of force to protect myself, my family , and on occasion others . That level may range from a call to 911 all the way thro a shot taken to stop imminent threat .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  13. #42
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    4,713
    After reading through the entire post, I went with Burglary. That being said it all depends on many factors.

    I do believe there are lots of arguements being made over nothing as it relates to this poll. I believe that cw9mm was looking for our threshold for use of deadly force, not an aruement about what the state allows or which should come first in the poll.

    All one has to do is look over this site to figure out there are a vast range of what people find as acceptable instances for use of deadly force. In not all instances will the same people agree. I have found that there are others here that think similarly to me on many issues, but then one will come up and we don't agree or someone that I usually don't agree with is taking a similar possition to me some time. I think this is what the poll is trying to get at, I might be wrong, but hey that wouldn't be the first time. We all have some minimum standard, some people's are pretty low, some peoples are pretty high. There is no right answer for everyone.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
    www.ddchl.com
    Texas CHL Instructor
    Texas Hunter Education Instructor
    NRA Instructor

  14. #43
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    5,133
    I believe that cw9mm was looking for our threshold for use of deadly force, not an aruement about what the state allows or which should come first in the poll.
    And that is exactly what i am unwilling to define online other than to say that mine is and will be in accordance with any and all laws .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  15. #44
    Member Array mousehunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    165
    I am reluctant to vote. I think it is acceptable if I feel myself or someone else's life is on the line. Sometimes that might be attempted murder, other times it could simply be armed burglary. Technically if authorized for a few other reasons in Texas (such as to stop a theft if no other means to recover the goods is possible - get insurance it is cheaper than defending yourself in court).

    As for the rape issue - that is alway a possible risk of life.
    ---
    As for Robbery, most often it will accompany a threat to ones life. Assault and battery is a bit more iffy for me - all boils down the a threat to ones life.

  16. #45
    Senior Member Array mojust's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Willimantic Connecticut
    Posts
    624
    When I am afraid for my life, or when my loved ones, or an innocent, is afraid for their life.

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Anyone Been To Lethal Force Institute?
    By Concealed Carry in forum Defensive Carry & Tactical Training
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: November 24th, 2012, 10:37 PM
  2. Thoughts Regarding the Lapse Between Lethal and Non-Lethal Force
    By littlejon126 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: October 9th, 2009, 05:34 AM
  3. Is a chair cause for lethal force?
    By ExactlyMyPoint in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: July 10th, 2009, 10:25 AM
  4. lethal force?
    By titleist in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: May 31st, 2007, 08:14 PM
  5. Can *you* exercise non-lethal force?
    By xsquidgator in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 71
    Last Post: October 20th, 2006, 05:53 PM

Search tags for this page

4 thresholds deadly force

,

ccw when is it legal to draw colorado

,

missoouri justified lethat defense

,

when is lethal force justified in missouri

,

when to you force

,

wv justified force

,

wv justified use of deadly force

Click on a term to search for related topics.