Leo Conflict Resolved

This is a discussion on Leo Conflict Resolved within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Congrats I hope that the other officers involved were spoken to also. What really rubbed me the wrong way was not the demeanor of "Leaps" ...

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Thread: Leo Conflict Resolved

  1. #31
    Member Array helitech's Avatar
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    Congrats

    I hope that the other officers involved were spoken to also. What really rubbed me the wrong way was not the demeanor of "Leaps" after he saw the firearm, but how he and the other officers conducted themselves after the situation was under so called "under control". The first issue that should have been established was the validity of the CC permits and the identity of the holders. They had absolutely no right to search your vehicle or personal property unless there was a valid reason. Having a valid CCW does not give them probable cause.
    Any professional, courteous LEO would have explained his reasons and concerns with the persons involved and offered an immeadiate apology after the dust had settled at the scene, but as we all know, just like any other job, there are people that suck at what they do and shouldn't be doing it.
    It seems that to many less than desirable people are getting a gun and a badge now.
    Now, lets see if "Leaps" takes his butt chewing to heart.
    Last edited by helitech; November 26th, 2007 at 11:33 PM.

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  3. #32
    Distinguished Member Array Colin's Avatar
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    Write a letter commending the CO for taking positive steps to correct an error by a member of his force and that you feel more confident with his leadership, I wouldn't talk to much about gun rights, just that this CO acted in a proper manner and is a credit to the department, it will help when he comes up for review.

  4. #33
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    Great job LongRider!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

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  5. #34
    Distinguished Member Array CT-Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin View Post
    Write a letter commending the CO for taking positive steps to correct an error by a member of his force and that you feel more confident with his leadership, I wouldn't talk to much about gun rights, just that this CO acted in a proper manner and is a credit to the department, it will help when he comes up for review.
    I agree with Colin on this one. The CO deserves props for standing up and doing the right thing. A well-written letter to his or her superior is definitely in order, and may get him a little bigger pay bump at his annual review.

  6. #35
    Senior Member Array DrLewall's Avatar
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    Reading about "Leaps" reminds me of the character that Doug Hutchison played in the Green Mile, Percy Wetmore. I reckon some people just have to act bigger than most..glad your outcome is better than the experience!

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by state6three8 View Post
    Long Rider,
    our situation will now become one of my training scenarios. I hope to keep this from happening again.
    I'll do my best to prevent this from happening again, state6three8
    Wow that is the BEST possible result of this deal. I know I personally would be grateful for that. Wish you had caught the first post. Still don't know what the consequence of filing a formal complaint is or what the other options are. Lets hope this helps him become the kind of officer we are all proud to have serve in our community. My one concern is his fear don't know if you can train past that. The little man complex and attitude he can grow out of. Again thanks again a single training officer can make a huge difference IMO. Your responce to this will make it a worth while experience .

    Quote Originally Posted by state6three8 View Post
    Long Rider,
    Joke: You're wife wasn't wearing a burka was she? You didn't have a bumper sticker reading: "Jihad" did you? You didn't mention the rocket launcher in your back seat or the explosive belt you were wearing.
    Nope my wife is Ndn I'm 1/2 Italian. Her war bonnet was at home along with my sharkskin suit & fedora. The violin case was empty too
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    Nope my wife is Ndn I'm 1/2 Italian. Her war bonnet was at home along with my sharkskin suit & fedora. The violin case was empty too
    ROFL

    on a side note (sort of), what have you and your wife learned from this in the past few weeks concerning CCW? what have you changed to avoid having a handgun fall out in the car? what have you done about storage (as in kids in the car, etc) that began this whole scenario originally? what is your wife's outlook, does she still carry?
    LEO/CHL
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  9. #38
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    "What we decided to do was to meet with him (the CO) and the officer."

    Best of the best..
    High road for getting the facts out and point across.

    Glad the CO used it as a learning situation for the LEO.

    Bravo...

  10. #39
    Senior Member Array Fragman's Avatar
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    Well done in taking the high road. That shows excellent judgement and restraint I think, and that is a pretty valuable commodity in the CCW community.

  11. #40
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesnofoa View Post
    Thank you for posting a follow up, i agree with your decision. I did take issue with something the CO said.
    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    I asked what the departments SOP is for dealing with armed citizens, and was told the officer is to secure the gun not the citizen until everything is verified and resolved.
    Nobody has the right to disarm me when i have done nothing wrong.
    While I agree with the sentiment, I also understand the officers need to be safe. Way to many get killed at traffic stops. I have had them secure my gun before others just asked I don't reach for it. I am OK with either as I can see the need. Either beats the crap out of being cuffed and put in his back seat or having him pull his gun on you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesnofoa View Post
    I say this knowing full well that real life is different, if a cop feels threatened by me he will take my gun.
    Yep and that is the real life deal. Aholes at traffic stops do kill police officers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin View Post
    Write a letter commending the CO for taking positive steps to correct an error by a member of his force and that you feel more confident with his leadership, I wouldn't talk to much about gun rights, just that this CO acted in a proper manner and is a credit to the department, it will help when he comes up for review.
    Thanks. Great thought. Its done today. I know my wife will send one too from her work make it a professional letter of appreciation.

    Quote Originally Posted by dom View Post
    your wife and the weapon remained in the car for quite a while. Just wondering, do you think he even realized that while concentrating on you, he was leaving himself wide open to attack with the unsecured weapon/passenger?
    That came up in the first thread. Don't know if you at one point recall he also came close to blowing a hole in his own chest. Neither was discussed at the meeting. That and the topic of his finger control etc was... avoided at the meeting. Not sure why it was avoided since the rest was dealt with openly. We did talk about it on the phone

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs View Post
    state6three8 Thanks for your post. Of course i had little chance of getting sued for washing out an officer because he/she was simply unsuited to the job , or an idiot.
    I bet that it is hard on todays training officer weeding out the ones that they "know" don't really qualify with all the PC hoops they need to jump through.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesnofoa View Post
    Thank you for posting a follow up, i agree with your decision. I did take issue with something the CO said.



    Nobody has the right to disarm me when i have done nothing wrong.

    Edit -
    I say this knowing full well that real life is different, if a cop feels threatened by me he will take my gun.
    Now it's probably just me....but I would file a freedom of information request asking for a copy of the department's policy on " encounhtering legally armed citizens" and one for the production of the dashcam video.

    Why? Because you may not be getting the whole truth. The situation you were in was a very dynamic one, one in which an officer with his finger on the trigger can easily have a ND in your direction. However, if his finger was off the trigger (maintained good finger control) then I would think highly of some of the past training and would be inclined to believe that with his current attitude correction he may well not be a liability to the citizens or department. However, if he was pointing with finger on the trigger as described in the OP (IIRC) then you were only a sneeze away from having a bad day.

    As for the policy....if it does not reflect a "real world" attitude of respecting the right of citizens to carry, then I would work to see that changed, and make sure that the department can verify that all officers have been updated.

    I am certainly NOT anti-LEO, however, too many are not sufficiently aware of current laws and simply react based on their own belief system or word-of-mouth from colleagues.

    This process can be done as a gentleman, however, if animosity is shown by the department because you, as a citizen, are insisting on some publicly available material.....well then.....too bad.

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