Shooters, who don't or won't carry

This is a discussion on Shooters, who don't or won't carry within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I live in a non CCW state in a small city. I'm only a few miles from the border of another non CCW state. I ...

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Thread: Shooters, who don't or won't carry

  1. #46
    Member Array Moondoggie's Avatar
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    I live in a non CCW state in a small city.

    I'm only a few miles from the border of another non CCW state. I travel there quite often.

    My state will probably pass CCW this year, and my wife and I will both get permits....$140 each. Plus probably have to take some sort of safety class to meet the requirements. I/we will probably carry when it's feasible.

    Even after we get our permits, CCW will be problematic. I'm retired military, and most trips to "civilization" include a stop at a base for meds or shopping...CCW (or any weapons possession) verboten with Federal issues involved. Bummer! I also drive an 18 wheeler for a living (semi-retired) and would like to CCW in the truck, but my weekly trips take me to Chicago..not good! Screwed, blued, and tattoo'd no matter which way I go.

    It would be nice if CCW were universal...I would carry all of the time then.
    If you ain't the lead dog, the view never changes.

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  3. #47
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    Moon - I feel your pain - it is crazy - hoops, hurdles and downright brick walls for you and so many. It is sickening.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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  4. #48
    Member Array Moondoggie's Avatar
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    Yeah, and to think that I had a permit in AZ before we moved back to this dearth of civilization.

    I'm telling 'ya, when my dear, sweet, Mother-in-law (next door) is gone.....WE'RE OUTTA HERE! (If we're not too old to move!)
    If you ain't the lead dog, the view never changes.

  5. #49
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondoggie

    My state will probably pass CCW this year, and my wife and I will both get permits....$140 each. Plus probably have to take some sort of safety class to meet the requirements. I/we will probably carry when it's feasible.

    I'm retired military,

    I also drive an 18 wheeler for a living (semi-retired) and would like to CCW in the truck
    .

    Sounds like you are in WI. I just moved from Green Bay to MI here so I could CCW. Sen. Zien is getting things rolling again. The fee is lowered in the new bill because he is taking the county sheriff issue out and thinking of making it DOJ or State Police, among some other minor changes regarding no-carry zones and admin stuff.

    The training can be waived with a DD-214 form from your discharge papers, as it will still remain in this version of the proposed bill.


    Don't know if you (CDL's) can CCW in a commercial vehicle. I would check into it. Everyone I have talked to said on a Federal level no. My fiance's brother drives truck and has a permit. He checked into it and said a CDL cannot carry while in the vehicle, and that is not a company policy, something about some Federal code or regulation. Check into it to be sure. Just giving you a heads up.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  6. #50
    Senior Member Array Al Lowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freakshow10mm
    Sounds like you are in WI. I just moved from Green Bay to MI here so I could CCW. Sen. Zien is getting things rolling again. The fee is lowered in the new bill because he is taking the county sheriff issue out and thinking of making it DOJ or State Police, among some other minor changes regarding no-carry zones and admin stuff.

    The training can be waived with a DD-214 form from your discharge papers, as it will still remain in this version of the proposed bill.


    Don't know if you (CDL's) can CCW in a commercial vehicle. I would check into it. Everyone I have talked to said on a Federal level no. My fiance's brother drives truck and has a permit. He checked into it and said a CDL cannot carry while in the vehicle, and that is not a company policy, something about some Federal code or regulation. Check into it to be sure. Just giving you a heads up.
    I checked the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration web site, and there was nothing about firearms. On a practical level, unless you limit your self to states with CCW regs, that recognize your CCW (resident and non-resident, assuming you try to cover all the bases) then there will be times your weapon will have to be put away where authorities can't check. If there is such a place.

    They're trying to get training waived here too for veterans. And even though I'm a vet (Vietnam era) I'm against it. The reason, there are MANY former military who, after basic training never picked up a firearm. AND one of the many things you learn in the training course are your legal obligations. You are (usually) taught when you can and can't shoot, and other useful things that I think EVERYONE who gets a CCW should know.

    But that's just my humble opinion. ;)

  7. #51
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Lowe
    I checked the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration web site, and there was nothing about firearms.


    They're trying to get training waived here too for veterans. And even though I'm a vet (Vietnam era) I'm against it.

    one of the many things you learn in the training course are your legal obligations. You are (usually) taught when you can and can't shoot, and other useful things that I think EVERYONE who gets a CCW should know.

    Don't know where says you can't (regarding CDLs). He said this was covered in his training for his CDL endorsement. He drives for Sysco. I will ask him next time I see him.


    Also agreed. I believe the "range time" ( ie, 30 rounds) should be waived if you are a Vet, even though it may have been since the War you have touched a gun. You use one in BT or combat, you don't forget it. You know how they work. I can see still attending the law portion of the training not a problem there. I just think it is a little ridiculous to ask a guy who has went through how many thousands of rounds during his Tour, to light up 30 more. Seems like a simple thing to some, but not me.

    I had been blessed with a good knowledge of CCW laws in MI via glocktalk.com forums and packing.org before I moved here and took the class in April, so that part was easy. The range was a joke though. Tying my shoes was harder than that. He just wanted to see if we could empty a magazine into a pie plate at 7 yards in less than 10 seconds.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  8. #52
    Senior Member Array Al Lowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freakshow10mm
    ...Also agreed. I believe the "range time" ( ie, 30 rounds) should be waived if you are a Vet, even though it may have been since the War you have touched a gun. You use one in BT or combat, you don't forget it. You know how they work. I can see still attending the law portion of the training not a problem there. I just think it is a little ridiculous to ask a guy who has went through how many thousands of rounds during his Tour, to light up 30 more. Seems like a simple thing to some, but not me.

    I had been blessed with a good knowledge of CCW laws in MI via glocktalk.com forums and packing.org before I moved here and took the class in April, so that part was easy. The range was a joke though. Tying my shoes was harder than that. He just wanted to see if we could empty a magazine into a pie plate at 7 yards in less than 10 seconds.
    I could see waiving the range time for some people. But remember too, this is a permit to carry a handgun, and many people in the service only use a rifle.

    Still, I have no objection to waiving the range time, as long as they attend the legal part.

    I guess it depends on who you go to for your CPL training course. I went to the Jackson County Sportsmen's Club. And the two instructors who taught that course put us through the ringer. We used about 80 rounds each in that one, and they covered a range of situations.

  9. #53
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freakshow10mm
    Don't know if you (CDL's) can CCW in a commercial vehicle. I would check into it. Everyone I have talked to said on a Federal level no. My fiance's brother drives truck and has a permit. He checked into it and said a CDL cannot carry while in the vehicle, and that is not a company policy, something about some Federal code or regulation. Check into it to be sure. Just giving you a heads up.
    The federal "code" against carrying a firearm in a commercial vehicle is an urban myth. There is no such law! It's been mentioned so often and for so long that it's included in many trucking pubs and training programs, but it just doesn't exist. The next time someone brings it up, ask them the exact code and/or regulation number and I'll bet they can't tell you. Tom Gresham (Gun Talk radio and Guns & Ammo TV) has an ongoing bet on his radio show that he'll pay something like $10,000 to the person who can prove a fed law restricting gun carry for interstate truckers exist. The trick is to find the actual law (as in code, statute numbers, wording, etc) and it's just not out there. Just saying it's so in a company drivers manual won't work. The only laws that exist as of now restricting a drivers ability to carry a gun are the ones enacted by the individual states.
    Last edited by rachilders; August 3rd, 2005 at 12:00 PM. Reason: TYPO
    "... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane

  10. #54
    Member Array revlar's Avatar
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    Anti-CCW shooters

    And then there are those "pro-RKBA friends" who tout their support for CCW - but say "don't do it around me".

    Two long-time gun enthusiast friends of mine pulled this very thing on me when MO passed CCW. Both had long trumpeted their support for CCW - and said they would both be getting their licenses - until I obtained mine. Both of these fellows are well aware that my family has been stalked by a (now convicted) violent felon. Three family members (myself included) have been assaulted and this psycho has repeatedly threatened our lives. With all due respect to those who say I should move - NO ONE is going to force me out of my home. I will stand my ground.

    To then have these two friends tell me that they did not trust me with a gun put many things in perspective for me. Both of them have proven their own inept knowledge/skill with firearms - so at one point I assumed they, perhaps, believed I would be as careless as they know themselves to be. But the truth is - they both know I am obsessive about safe gun handling, I abide by the law - and I have a fair measure of skill as well.

    Anyone who believes I should surrender my personal safety in their presence will find themselves to no longer be in my presence. It's as simple as that.

    And so these two "friends" - no longer are friends - if, indeed they ever were.
    If you want to make God laugh - tell Him your plans. Yiddish proverb

  11. #55
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Lowe

    I guess it depends on who you go to for your CPL training course. I went to the Jackson County Sportsmen's Club. And the two instructors who taught that course put us through the ringer. We used about 80 rounds each in that one, and they covered a range of situations.

    I took mine at the Hancock Township Firestation. The range part was done at the instructor's house. Ten rounds slow fire, starting at low ready and returning after each shot. Ten rounds in less than 10 seconds starting from low ready. Ten rounds in double taps to three targets, come back to singles, and last shot to the first plate.


    rachilders, I will check into MI code. That might be where it is at. He drives locally from L'Anse up to Copper Harbor. Might be a state thing.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  12. #56
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    revlar - another very good (and sad) instance of some of the hipocrisy we see at times.

    I posted here I think some time back, regarding the ''trust factor'' - meaning, for me if someone does not want me around because I carry - implicit in that from my POV is that they can't or won't trust me. The solution then is simple - I will not cease to carry but I will for sure not be seeing much of them any more.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    BTW - my students in this last weekend's personal protection course were asked to bring at least 100 rounds. Despite the heat we spent over the two days about 5 hours of solid range time.
    Chris - P95
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    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  13. #57
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    Road Rage

    I just posted a thread on an incident where a man murdered another in a case of road rage today. The killer was 60, licensed to carry a gun and killed a man who was removing his 10 month old child from his car at the time in a parking lot. The full story is posted in my other message but the bottom line was, he was taking several medications for depression at the time of the shooting. I'm sure that will be his defense. I think everyone here should pause and consider this when we talk about why we carry a weapon. While I'm not saying this tragedy will - or should - affect how and where we carry our guns, it should make us all consider the times when the real question is IF we should carry our guns at all.
    Last edited by rachilders; August 3rd, 2005 at 02:26 PM. Reason: EDIT
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  14. #58
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    Seen that new thread ra - and commented there.
    While I'm not saying this tragedy will - or should - affect how and where we carry our guns, it should make us all consider the times when the real question is IF we should carry our guns at all.
    Indeed - this is an equally important consideration, which I should have made more of.
    Chris - P95
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    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  15. #59
    Senior Member Array Al Lowe's Avatar
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    In Michigan, IF you are under care for a mental illness, it is cause for denial of a CPL. Now, some of you may think this is a good idea. But let me add this. Suppose you want to apply for, or already have a CPL, and say you think you might be suffering from depression. Now, if you seek medical assistance, and the issuing authority (in Michigan's case, the County gun board) finds out, kiss your permit good bye.

    BUT, say you know you're suffering, but DON'T seek assistance because you don't want to lose your permit. Kind of a Catch-22, isn't it.

    It would seem to me, that if you KNOW you need help, why should that be a disqualifying factor? There are many who suffer from depression or other mental illnesses that are not a danger to anyone else. And I know from searching that there are states that don't care. Or at least, have no provision in their CCW laws that do this sort of thing.

    Now, I'll grant you, the guy in the story that RA posted should NOT have had a gun. Or at least, HE should have known better.

    I'll tell you all this right now. I have suffered from depression. And I do get angry from time to time, but I NEVER, EVER consider a firearm to be the answer to my problems. My firearms are for the DEFENSE of my self, my family, and any other innocent bystanders that might happen to be in my vicinity when the SHTF. Also, for any Michigan LEO's who might read this, I am NOT under a doctor's care for any mental illness.

    Do some people make me mad? Sure. But pulling my pistol out and shooting them is NOT an option. Unless they pull a weapon out on me.

    The day I start thinking that shooting someone, without legal provocation is the answer, is the day I hand in my CPL of my own accord.

    Frankly, I do not see that happening. I seem to have too strong a grip on reality. Which is too bad in some ways. I'd really like to go nuts just once, so maybe I'd get a vacation.

  16. #60
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    Al - I think if honest we all have had at least ''depressive moments'' and I expect too we are all capable of anger.

    The difference is - the word ''control'' - I can get riled up, tho it takes time - and maybe when I do go ''ballistic'' I am pretty hot under the collar.

    That said - I have always had an ''inner voice of calm'' - something I remember being there when I was (way back) a student and drank too much sometimes. The lil' voice was a rational me - over-riding any real stupid things I felt like doing. Voice of reason too I'll call it.

    I am of the opinion that most responsible folks have this at least to some degree - such that any thoughts of using a gun would be totally over-ruled unless we were genuinely 'in extremis'.

    Heck, for most part we'd all hopefully admit that we take great pains to avoid trouble - the more so as responsible CCW's.

    It would be more than unfortunate to ''tar with common brush'' any and all folks who happened to have it recorded that they had a ''bad spell'' from which they come out clean the other side - only to find they are debarred from further carry. There are of course so many facets to this.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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