Why can't I exit my car gun in hand if I feel threatened?

This is a discussion on Why can't I exit my car gun in hand if I feel threatened? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Well, you've gotten good advice from just about everyone. They agree that you will be better off to drive away. You are only allowed to ...

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Thread: Why can't I exit my car gun in hand if I feel threatened?

  1. #46
    Member Array Seadog's Avatar
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    Well, you've gotten good advice from just about everyone. They agree that you will be better off to drive away. You are only allowed to use deadly force to confront deadly force when your life or that of another person is in imminent danger of death or grave bodily injury. If you pull a gun and the other guy calls the cops, you may be going to jail, lose your CCW license and your gun! Stay in your car, drive away. If you can't drive away, keep your gun out of view until you can accurately assess the other guys intentions. Remember, right or wrong you are going to have to justify your use of deadly force. Even if you are not charged with a crime, you very well may be sued and have to defend your actions in civil court. Carrying a loaded firearm is a serious responsibility, using it irresponsibly may ruin your life and that of your family.

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  3. #47
    Member Array Jaystekan's Avatar
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    Question: Lets say you exit the vehicle with your gun in hand but hidden. Now the person coming towards you hits you with his fist. what if he pushes you? What is your response? Remember, you are holding your gun in your hand. Do you strike him back with your weak hand? Do you walk away? Do you point your gun at him? As a ccw holder we have a duty to de-escalate situations we are in, or to at least not escalate them. Having a gun out in a fist fight sure seems like an escelation to me. A man punching you doesn't justify shooting him. A man pushing you doesn't justify shooting them. A man verbally assaulting you doesn't justify shooting them. I was taught that the only time my gun comes out is when I am prepared and justified to use it. If you exit your vehicle gun in hand, you better be justified and ready to use it. Simply pointing your gun at a person who is approaching you and telling him to back off, pulling a gun on a person in a fist-fight, pulling a gun on a person pushing you is going to get you some alone time in prison. If you are not justified and prepared to use the gun it should not come out of the holster. Exiting the car or staying in the car is debatable, but if you exit the vehicle gun in hand you better be prepared and justified to use it, if not then it should stay in the holster, ready, but holstered.

  4. #48
    Senior Member Array gddyup's Avatar
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    Yep. If you are inside your car and can manage to drive away without injuring someone not involved in the altercation, that's your best bet. Since you are in condition yellow and paying attention to your surroundings, like you should be, AND using that condition to put yourself in an opportunistic area while driving your car, IE not so close to the car in front of you so that you have some escape route, then you should have the ability to remove yourself from the situation without having to confront the person in question....
    Firefighter/EMT
    "You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected will never know" - T.R.

    <----My LT was unhappy that I did not have my PASS-Tag at that fire. But I found the body so he said he would overlook it. :)

  5. #49
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    Lot's of good information here... and lot's to consider as well.

    The only thing I am going to add at this point is that those who carry a gun or intend to use a gun to defend themselves against a severe tongue lashing by an enraged drunk or a couple of jabs in the nose may one day find themselves staring into the dark abyss of the criminal justice system.

    Some people are so afraid of getting a black eye or a bloody or broken nose that they are willing to risk spending time in prison for killing someone.

    There are those who feel if you lay a hand on me with an act of aggression or anger, then next stop is blowing them out of their shoes with your smoke wagon.

    To me... if that's your attitude, please let me know how it works out for you.

    As far as I'm concerned, my gun is an absolute last resort EMERGENCY lifesaver when times are dire, deadly and I'm a heartbeat away from being killed! It is not there to save me from an ass whoopin by someone who felt I wronged them with my innocuous action he misinterpreted.

    To me, if I shoot an unarmed man and don't even have a mark on me... I'm gonna have some 'splainin to do.

    If I do shoot an unarmed man, it's because I was being beaten down and continued to be beat after I was down on the ground and couldn't escape. I'm gonna look like I've just been in the ring with Evander Holyfield.

    I am not going to try and explain to police why I shot an unarmed man and I don't even have a wrinkle in my freshly pressed shirt.

    Now, all situations are different and any situation where violence is involved can change in an instant. When I strapped on a gun, there were no guarantees I was going to survive that day, even with the gun. But win, lose or draw, I'm making damn sure I'm not going to be sent to prison for shooting anyone. And that means no shooting under questionable circumstances. If I pull the trigger, it will be obvious I was on solid ground with no other choice.

    That's just the criteria I have set forth for myself. I also don't rely soley on my gun. I usually have some other sort of non-lethal weapon such as OC spray with me, as well as a measure of unarmed combat skills and training in how to disarm others as well as not being disarmed myself.

    I took it upon myself to learn other methods of defense besides using the gun before I got my ccw so that for me, saying the gun is a weapon of last resort isn't just some punchline. My defensive firearm truly isn't the only tool in my toolbox.

    YMMV
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  6. #50
    Member Array crankshop1000's Avatar
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    I think using (showing) a gun to avoid a POTENTIAL problem may be considered "brandishing a weapon" by law enforcement.That could result in legal problems. Producing a gun to ward off a REAL threat is a different matter entirely.

  7. #51
    Member Array dang.45's Avatar
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    The only reason I'm saying this is because it was my scenario in the first place...

    Hopefully I've already added that, if there is any way to avoid a confrontation, I'll be doing it. My scenario is making the assumption that I can't, for whatever reason.

    The other thing is that I am asking for input on this hypothetical is because, as I've set it up, the person approaching my car is acting in a menacing manner, and since I can't see both of his hands, the menacing manner leads me to think there is a real possibility that he is armed. I of course have no way of knowing, but he's already in a position to produce whatever weapon he might have very quickly, which is why I asked my question about gun in hand as I did.

    All of this is a preamble to what my point for this post is - since I'm using myself, as I am today, as the starting point for the question, I don't currently have any training at all in any kind of hand-to-hand combat, or in the use of any other type of weapon, lethal or not. That is however something in which I am very interested, and is one of the (many) things I have on my list of things to acquire. Once I gain those skills, or if I have some way of defending myself against attack with something other than a gun, I will of course deploy that first.

    I know that what I've described, should the gun be seen, could end up being seen as brandishing, escalating, or justified, depending on what this fast approaching, menacing guy ends up doing. I'm describing a bad situation, and what might be the best ways of handling it if I can't escape it.

    I will definitely keep reading whatever people post here, because I do find it interesting and very enlightening to be exposed to ideas I might never have thought of on my own. However, I probably am done responding as I think I've worked out how I would be likely to act if the given scenario ever actually plays out. Thanks again for everyone who has replied - I appreciate all your input very much!
    "It is only as retaliation that force may be used and only against the man who starts its use. No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had a right to choose: his own." - John Galt, from Atlas Shrugged

  8. #52
    Member Array Jaystekan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dang.45 View Post

    The other thing is that I am asking for input on this hypothetical is because, as I've set it up, the person approaching my car is acting in a menacing manner, and since I can't see both of his hands, the menacing manner leads me to think there is a real possibility that he is armed. I of course have no way of knowing, but he's already in a position to produce whatever weapon he might have very quickly, which is why I asked my question about gun in hand as I did.

    :
    Are you prepared to shoot a man approaching you menacingly simply because you can't see his hands? I sure as hell am not. We are not police officers. We carry our gun as a last resort. Like I said earlier, as a ccw holder, we aren't supposed to pull out our gun, seen or not, simply because we feel there is a potential of a threat. A gun comes out only if there is a confirmed threat. If you are walking through the bad part of town at night, do you pull your gun out and walk with it in your hand? In your situation, a man is approaching, you can't see his hands, at what point do you decide whether to point the gun at him or not? 3 feet away? 15 feet away? 1 foot away? Having your gun in your hand puts you in the mindframe of using it. Wouldn't it be smarter to simply place your firing hand on the grip while leaving your gun holstered? That way once you see whether the person has a weapon or not you can simply decide to draw or to take your hand away. Personally if a person is approaching me, i want both hands free to defend myself. Your best bet is to practice drawing your gun from the holster and be ready to do so in a moments notice, keep your hand on the holstered gun, but leave it in the holster until you know whats going on. I would think it would be kinda hard to holster a gun in order to fight back while being punched or pushed in a fistfight.

  9. #53
    New Member Array OhioPatriot's Avatar
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    At least in Ohio, you always have the duty to retreat. In your home that means closing your door, or staying in your car if off your property. Unless you feel you are in enough danger to draw your weapon and have no other open options. By getting out of the car, you are now proactively escalating the situation. Again, as others have indicated unless there is some reason why you must exit (car is on fire, etc.), you are much better off staying in it.

    Just my thoughts...
    Jason

    "If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government..."
    -Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist (#28)

  10. #54
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    As said by others if driving away is an option that is the one to use. If not I am not one of the folks who thinks that staying in your car is the best option. Nor do I think that displaying a gun is a good move. Why not keep it holstered? Than the same criteria applies as if you were approached by an idiot on the street. I have always taught that if you draw your gun you are shooting it is a bad bad idea to think it will de escalate a bad situation. If the situation does not require that I shoot someone there is no need for me to draw my gun, ever.

    An aside I have disagreed with Janq that a car would afford you some kind of protection if some one fired a gun at you while you were in it. My thought is it would give you about the same protection as air. Today I set out to prove him wrong by firing a couple of jacketed 230gr .45 rounds into a 1979 Thunderbird. Well you see no pics of the damage because from five feet or so neither of the two rounds penetrated the door. Now granted that car was made out of real metal and is not a late model tin or plastic car but I stand corrected. The car may offer some protection after all. So, I am rethinking my reasoning for getting out of the car in the first place, especially since I am not a big mother and can maneuver pretty easily inside of a car. Anyone have a newer car they would not mind putting a few rounds in for the cause?

    Janq in case you missed that I was wro.. wraa... wro.. mistaken you are right a car could very well offer some protection definitely more than air between me and a shooter. Staying in the car is a viable option
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

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  11. #55
    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    If someone is intent on shooting someone sitting in a car, especially a shooter who is walking up to a car, the gun will probably be aimed at the driver through the window rather than through the door.

    If the aggressor isn't armed with a gun, a car may offer some temporary protection depending on how intent the aggressor is. So I can see the point of staying inside under those circumstances. But if the aggressor suddenly pulls a gun, I'm at a distinct disadvantage unless I've already drawn. If I see the person coming in time, I'll probably draw but keep it concealed.

  12. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSB View Post
    OK, first post for me. I generally lurk unless I have something real to add. This actually happened for me. At the time a 40 yr old reasonably fit male. Same with the other guy. Honked at the guy in front (that's why they give us horns, right?) and we ended up parking in the same lot. We apparently had the same destination and it was not an issue of one following the other. He approached very agitated, grabbed my door handle to yank the door open and I reached into my glovebox and began to pull my pistol out. He was gone immediately. I called 911 (as did he apparently) and LEO showed. He admitted his actions and that I didn't point the pistol at him. We were given the choice, both go to jail or both go home. We both opted for #2, but I consider myself extremely lucky from an aftermath point of view. My reaching for the gun was an assault and his yanking the door open was some sort of "carjacking" type felony as explained by LEO, so were were about even in that department. It was a sobering reminder if just why pulling a pistol is a lot of trouble and I will remember it for all future encounters. Lessons learned...
    Yes, it sounds like you were "lucky" to not have further trouble in this situation, but only because of the unreasonableness the law applies to responding to your actions.

    Some agitated dude actually TRIED to open your car from the outsided, presumbly to get at you! How is it possible that your reaching for your gun once he was at your car attempting ingress is "assault"?!

    If it's granted that his attempt on the door was "some sort of carjacking felony," then your response was DEFENSIVE, and should/would not count as "assault" with your weapon.

    Sure, it's best that you both went separate ways without getting arrested: my point is that if anything, the cop should have offered the option of YOU having the OTHER GUY arrested, or letting you both walk away. There should not have been a choice where you, too, get arrested, as you did nothing wrong.

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