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Why can't I exit my car gun in hand if I feel threatened?

5K views 55 replies 32 participants last post by  peacefuljeffrey 
#1 ·
Rather than hijacking another thread, I want to ask this separately. Here is a link to the other thread for reference... - http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=33053

My question is this - if it is OK to answer your door at home with a handgun in hand, say with it either behind your back or hidden from view behind your leg, why is it not OK to get out your car, gun in hand in the same manner, when confronted by a clearly agitated person, whose intentions are entirely unclear to you?

For those that have read the above referenced thread, I don't want to argue whether or not Mr. Gumm should or should not have gotten out of the car - that discussion is already happening in the original thread. I also don't want to limit the discussion to the parameters of the original thread, i.e. Mr. Gumm is an older, not-very-mobile guy, confronted by a drunk driver high on meth. For the sake of this discussion, lets assume that the armed driver is me - mid-thirties, male, decent size, not trained or confident in any hand-to-hand situations, confronted by another driver who either I have pissed of (say by accidentally cutting them off), or is pissed off / agitated for some unknown reason.

Posts in the referenced thread seem to indicate that exiting a vehicle, gun in hand, is a no-no pretty much no matter what. Why is that? If I have a reasonable fear for my life or safety, being approached by an unknown person, how can it be anything other than a good idea to revert back to my Boy Scout training and "be prepared" by having my lawfully-carried gun in hand?

Again, since this is me in this situation & not Mr. Gumm from the referenced thread, lets assume that my gun, while in hand, is still hidden & not pointed at the person coming toward me...
 
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#2 ·
I suggest reading up on your states laws. Depending on what it states , there could be many answers . Also with all the variables a situation could have , the response can vary greatly.
 
#3 ·
IMO when carrying, the first recommendation is always to avoid a confrontational situation whenever possible.

Wouldn't it simply be easier (and more desirable) to drive away? Maybe it's just me but I don't see the advantage of exiting my car, gun in hand.
 
#40 ·
You can't always just drive away. Someone got out of there car and approached mine with a bat. I had my family in the car. I was at a red light and tried to exit my lane but didn't have enough room. I beeped at the people in front of me and they didn't move. Now what do you do? sit in your car and wait to get hit with a bat... or worse by staying in the car you actually put your family in danger.
 
#35 ·
I would think, for the sake of the example, that the idea is you aren't able to drive away.

Surely there will be some scenarios like this where driving away can't happen, be it you're out of gas, the car has broken down, perhaps there was a collision between your vehicle and his...

I'm with Dang.45 on this. It seems prudent to prepare for the combat that the aggressor is making clear he is bringing with him. If he's coming toward your car after exiting his own, you can't possibly know what weapon he might have with him, and the level to which he might use it. So it's tactically dumb to just sit in your car -- as though it offers protection against anything but knives and fists (and maybe not even those). So accepting that you can't "just drive away," the next best thing for surviving this scene is to ready your gun for defense, and possibly either sit in the car and be ready to fire on his approach (which leaves you unable to move or get cover), or get out of your car and find cover, and possibly even retreat, while having the gun ready if it's needed.
 
#5 ·
I can't see anything legally wrong with getting out of your car with you weapon already unholstered if someone is coming at you in an aggressive manner - and you have chosen to get out of your car.

I think a better choice of action is to stay in the car try to leave if possible. If the person in question has blocked you so cannot leave in your vehicle, that in and of itself is an aggressive act on their part. In which case you have a better chance outside you car rather than trying to hunker down in your car while they break your windows out in an effort to get to you!

Once out of you car it doesn't take but the blink of an eye for someone to close a car lengths distance between you and them. I'm not that athletic anymore, but I'll bet I can get from the rear of your car to you standing at the driver's door faster than you can draw your ccw. If you get out with you weapon drawn, and the bg continues moving towards you you can raise your weapon from your side, much faster than you can draw it. In the best case scenario, once he sees your gun pointed at his knoggin, he will stop in his tracks. If not he will stop dead in his tracks.

In this case getting out of your car WITHOUT your weapon unholstered almost seems a suicidal act on your part.
 
#6 ·
There would be nothing wrong with exiting a vehicle with a weapon in hand as long as the weapon remained concealed based on your scenario. That is concealed from everyone, not just the person that you believe to be a threat.

As far as I know it is ok for you to answer the door with gun in hand and visible. In your home there is no need for concealment as long as your not standing in your yard pointing it at your neighbors, then it becomes brandishing. On the street it is a different story, or in your car is not the same as on your property.

Exiting your vehicle with gun in hand is not always a no, no. Please refer to this thread http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=34303
This is a perfect example of when it would be justified, since the BG had a visible weapon approaching the off duty officer, although it would be justified for a civilian as well.

To present a weapon in a manner which it appears that it will be used for defense, you will have to refer to your state laws as to when that is acceptable behavior. Each one is going to be a bit different. In Texas we have pretty broad range, other states are not so broad.

You said it in your post, the persons intentions are unclear, that in itself tells me your can't be sure what they are thinking and therefore can't truely be in fear for your life or limb. Until their intentions are clear, you can't make the judgement that most states require you to make for the presentation of lethal force.
 
#26 ·
I understand that by exiting my car I am entering into "the public". However, if I exit and am staying "with" my car, i.e. not approaching the person I perceive as a threat, I think of that as protecting myself and what is mine - my car.

And I understand about knowing the laws for where you are. I'm in Mississippi, where both my home and my car are considered essentially the same way in terms of how I am justified in defending them (so far as I understand the law). That is why in my revised & more specific scenario, I emphasized that while I have exited my vehicle, I'm still between my driver's seat and the inside of the open driver's door.

I do understand exactly what you are saying, but I happen to be in one of those states where your car is an extension of your home...
 
#8 ·
Yes - state laws will color this but - overall it strikes me that even if someone can regard their vehicle as ''home'' - the problem is, exiting a vehicle will usually mean exiting into public space - and so potentially instant brandishing.

At home is a different matter IMO - plus there is no need to have a gun presented and actually visible anyways. Castle doctrine or no - your home is not public.

One thing I should have added - much will depend on the threat level and nature of threat.
 
#9 ·
why is it not OK to get out your car, gun in hand.
Because your car isn't on your property. If you are in public with a gun at the ready you are escalating whatever situation is going to transpire and in most states you can only meet force with equal force. Fist doesn't equal gun and you may very well end up in a fist fight. Best to stay behind steel and glass.
Now, laws vary from state to state ,and I'm not a lawyer but that's how I see it.
 
#10 ·
I would check your state laws. If you’re not at home, or place of business, most states require you to retreat if possible than to take lethal action.

Sure there may be exceptions: But at this time, I can not think of any where I would chance my life.

Remember just using a firearm to gain the advantage in a situation can be viewed as brandishing a firearm… or at the very least, improper display of a firearm.

Ether of those charges could result in your arrest, spending a night or two in jail, and having to pay out $3,000 dollars or more for an attorney, or even worse, being convicted of a felony and never allowed to carry a gun again.

For me, I’d just drive off, and if the BG follows call the COPS.
 
#11 ·
I understand all the responses I've gotten so far, but before I say anything else, I guess I should have been more clear that one thing I wanted to keep the same from the referenced thread, is to assume that I can't drive away for whatever reason. Obviously, if I can avoid a situation where there are unknowns, I will do so...

Thanks for the replies, and any more thoughts will be welcome!
 
#14 ·
Go back to that thread to the first post where the police statement is provided detailing what Gumm states occurred.
Gumm stated, to the police, that he was cursed verbally by Turney as he was in the street and attempting to turn into the parking lot.
At that point noting and knowing that a crazy acting person was behind him and that time wise he was well within the witching hour he should then have thought to himself to heck with parking my car. Keep going straight and get away from this jerk. Why?
Because pulling himself into a parking space knowing that jerk guy is behind him following greatly restricts his ability to be mobile and mobility provides distance to which every school kid knows distance from a bully/trouble is your very best friend.
So Gumm pulls into the parking lot, selects a parking space that doe snot allow him to escape without reversing to which Turney is behind him, and then Gumm choose to exit his steel & glass cocoon of relative safety and _concealment_ to instead engage Turney with the aid of cover and concealment via the very thin air.

That in and of itself is not wise or even sensical.
Further it's not like Gumm was an average Joe Blow citizen.
He was in fact as stated "certified as an armed security guard by the Council on Law Enforcement Education and Training".
For more information on 'CLEET' and it's not an average Joe 'CCW' Citizen programming and training go here; http://www.cleet.state.ok.us

As well people in that thread have said; "there is no reason I should put myself at a disadvantage especially if I (like Gumm) have health and physical limitations already".
Well if he is physically limited and does have health issues to such a degree that he cannot reasonably flee/run away on foot then exactly how is exiting ones vehicle made of _steel_ going to be beneficial and better going to nothing but air and to meet head on the source(s) of danger? Not one person has explained that.
Stay in the car, engine on, foot on/at the gas, firearm deployed _inside_ the car hidden from the attacker(s) view and at the ready (a strong tactical advantage), and if force subsequently becomes prudent you then have _two_ weapons available to you. One being your firearm, a weapon of very last resort. And two being your vehicle which is going to hit a human hard with _steel_ and weighs in at the approximate size of a small rhino at the least.
In a fight which would you rather have at your command? A small rhino or closely quartered air?

The choice is yours.

- Janq
 
#12 ·
My question is this - if it is OK to answer your door at home with a handgun in hand, say with it either behind your back or hidden from view behind your leg, why is it not OK to get out your car, gun in hand in the same manner, when confronted by a clearly agitated person, whose intentions are entirely unclear to you?

Again, since this is me in this situation & not Mr. Gumm from the referenced thread, lets assume that my gun, while in hand, is still hidden & not pointed at the person coming toward me...
1. Why exit the car in the first place? You are now potentially in the danger zone for knife/bat/fists/feet, etc.

2. You can't know for sure who is looking/able to see (I remember a time when I loving patted a portion of my wife's anatomy, thinking no one was around/could see...WRONG! And, boy, did I get it from wifey after!) Someone noticing could open you up to a charge of brandishing/display in angry, threatening manner. Or, you could just get the hysterical sheep's 911 call about 'man with a gun.'

3. Is there another, less potentially dangerous (life, limb, legally) response? (Drive away, call 911)

Anyway, those are my first thoughts...
 
#13 ·
dang,

Not trying to throw fuel on your fire but a start to your question would be to review the 'J.A.M.' concept principles as featured at this recent thread;

'Three easy citizen CCW rules to know and memorize to avoid hard times'
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=36322



There is not a hard rule stating that exiting ones car, defensive tool in hand (gun, knife, bat, tire iron, etc.), is either a bad idea or even unlawful.
As stated by others conditions can and do vary greatly and as such you have to have ability to make a proper assessment of the situation and with that degree of threat in a real way.

Reference the information in that thread or better yet ignore my own words completely and skip down to the multiple and disparate links I'd provided therein. Read those some of which go into great detail on this subject.
Then as suggested here by another not only read but study your own state and local laws on this subject. The answer to your question should with that become self evident.

Oh, and one other thing.
Ask yourself what is most important to you?

Is your ego being momentarily bruised by an obviously drunken irrational acting fool worth trading against your time, your savings, a bankruptcy, decreased health status, and your future freedom upon being jailed, adjudicated, and worst found guilty of a crime even if it's deemed or plead down to a misdemeanor assault? As my mom used to say; "That'll go on your permanent record!". Good luck keeping your job and/or finding a new one or getting a security clearance with an assault/gun related charge on your record.

Is your ego being momentarily bruised by an obviously drunken irrational acting fool of greater value than your life, liberty, and ability to be there to provide for your family and pursue happiness?
No one can answer that for you but your own self.

Another relevant thread to reference toward this subject and life & living on the streets is the recent thread;

'I've learned that...'
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=36326

Three statements of fact in that thread relevant to your question and the Gumm Vs. Turney situation are the following;
retsupt99 said:
I've learned that being cognizant of one's environment could save a life...your own!
I've learned that firearms require the user to have good judgment and responsible decision making skills...without one of the aforementioned, a firearm can get you into trouble, rather than OUT of trouble.
Source - http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=540102&postcount=20
And...

ethereal said:
You may have a right to go somewhere, but that doesn't mean it's a good place to be.

Source - http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=540268&postcount=23
Best wishes and be safe out there.

- Janq
 
#15 ·
Most states use a three point test to decide if a gun can be used lethally. Means, intent, opportunity = MIO. Does the potential assailant have the means to harm you, the intent to hurt you and, finally, the opportunity? In the case described there does not seem to be all three present if the driver stays in the car or drives away. Bottom line is that, should the driver leave his/her car, only then does the opportunity seem to have been presented. Drive away:wave:
 
#16 ·
Ok, I am six foot four and about three hundred pounds, not all muscle but not all flab either. I have been told that I can be rather intimidating when I set my mind to it. You have done something to greatly annoy me in traffic. I for whatever egocentric reason decide to give you a piece of my mind. I see you exiting your vehicle with weapon in hand. Am I not now reasonably in fear of my life? You have a gun in your hand! Shall we let the fire fight begin? Assuming we both survive and one or both of us are charged, how is that going to play for a jury?
 
#18 ·
MCP,

That's not what happened though, and is a totally different scenario.
Turney did not have a weapon in hand hidden nor visible.

Also even as you are annoyed, why would you thinking sensibly and safely for your own skin choose to pull over and stop your vehicle on the street to go give some other person who very likely might be a nut bag (and should be assumed to be armed...just as you are) a piece of your mind? For what and to what end?
You've placed yourself willingly and unwisely as well as unnecessarily into danger _and_ you are the aggravator at that acting criminally in doing so being both WWF huge _and_ on top of that being armed with a lethal weapon. Now you are the hyena and are acting criminally over what, some guy cutting you off or flipping you the bird?!

If I were on your jury and directed by the judge to follow the law, I'd do so not following your emotion or mine or who who dissed whom.
I'd as a result find you guilty of aggravated assault and if the guy died manslaughter.

Aggravated Assault
Content Updated 02/17/06

Definition
The Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program defines aggravated assault as an unlawful attack by one person upon another for the purpose of inflicting severe or aggravated bodily injury. The Program further specifies that this type of assault is usually accompanied by the use of a weapon or by other means likely to produce death or great bodily harm. Attempted aggravated assault that involves the display of—or threat to use—a gun, knife, or other weapon is included in this crime category because serious personal injury would likely result if the assault were completed. When aggravated assault and larceny-theft occur together, the offense falls under the category of robbery.

Source - http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/violent_crime/aggravated_assault.html
- Janq
 
#17 ·
While your car is not impenetrable or bullet proof, it does provide some protection against some threats. A car that is locked with the windows rolled up is difficult to break into without tools/weapons. If your aggressor is not visibly armed, getting out of your could be considered analogous to taking off you jacket in preparation for a fist fight. Getting out with a gun ups the ante dramatically. However, if the BG breaks your window and unlocks the door to get to you, it would be extremely difficult for him to make any assertions of self-defense. If you got out of your vehicle to flee the aggressor, that too, would work in your favor in court. That may also be necessary if the BG has a weapon of his own. There are not many bullets that a car door or window can stop. IMHO getting out of your car and approaching the BG puts both of you on equal legal footing.

Of course all of this changes if you’re driving a convertable.:image035:
 
#19 ·
Janq, the point I was trying to make is not related to the other thread, just the question about exiting your own vehicle with gun in hand if you feel threatened. If I am just walking up the other persons car (which I don't believe I would actually ever do) with the intention of doing nothing more than yelling at them, and they get out displaying a weapon, could I not argue self defense?
 
#22 ·
Understood, and to that end I addressed that secondary scenario completely in the remainder of my post beyond the first two sentences.

Doing so per your own scenario and conditions stated would not be advisable for multiple legal reasons including the fact that you stated you are 6'4 and 300lbs. which in and of itself per your scenario would be construed by most average people as a threatening presence.
The other guy, who has not yet committed a crime in yelling at you out his window or flipping the bird, seeing you pull over and exit your car looking like you do would in and of itself be reasonable for him, the jerk, to be in fear of _you_ toward his own life. he deploys his hidden weapon and you do yours and at that point it's all regrettable as two adults act and react unwisely to what was simply a minor disagreeance over driving style or interpretation of traffic rules.

The simplest, smartest, and most legal action and solution would be to stay in your car, don't engage the jerk, and keep on truckin' moving on with your life and leave him to go on with his being a jerk.
No harm no foul, no jail or morgue.

- Janq
 
#20 ·
Some excellent points regarding the previous scenario have already been made. A situation where exiting the vehicle and engaging the assailant would be acceptable and even advisable would be if 1) you were blocked from driving away and 2) exiting the vehicle was the best way to remove the threat. For example, if another person, such as my wife, were in the vehicle and the assailant was threatening her side of the car to the extent that I thought he'd gain entry, then it would be my best course to exit the vehicle and engage. A call to 911 would also be in order.

I can think of a number of variations on this theme, but the key is inability to drive away. Situational awareness is a good hedge against that, but not foolproof.
 
#25 ·
...For example, if another person, such as my wife, were in the vehicle and the assailant was threatening her side of the car to the extent that I thought he'd gain entry, then it would be my best course to exit the vehicle and engage. A call to 911 would also be in order...
Do not exit the vehicle in that case/scenario, either.

Command your wife to either duck her head down or drop her seat back back, wayyyy back, to the horizontal and to close her eyes tight and cover her ears...it's gonna get loud, RIGHT NOW.

At the same time from inside the car deploy your firearm and fight from within.
Exiting exposes you to the BG and/or any assistants he might have which you may not immediately be aware of.
The cars metal body slows down access and ability of the BG outside to get hands on you or your wife, far better than air, while from inside your semi-hard cocoon you can move around and fight 360 degrees outward. And as he/they retreat you select Drive or Reverse gear and either flee or drive into, up, and over the person(s) as is most prudent toward putting distance and thus safety between you and the hyena(s).

- Janq
 
#21 ·
OK, I've clearly got to learn how to write better / more precise questions... That is my fault, and I apologize.

While I was using Mr. Gunn as a jumping off point, I wanted to pose the question to assume only that -
- For some reason, I am stopped, and cannot drive away. I'll let your imagination take you to whatever scenario you wish to visualize...
- The person who is approaching my car is acting in some kind of belligerent way. I have no way of knowing of course if he is, for example, drunk and high on meth, but he is clearly not "right".
- For whatever reason, I have decided to exit my car, but I've only gotten to the point where I am in my doorway, still between the driver's seat and the inside of the open door. Maybe I have a small child in the back seat and I want whatever may or may not occur to be directed toward me & away from the car (for example).
- And just to be even more specific, I can see the person approaching, but I cannot see both of their hands. I'm not saying where their hands are, only that I cannot see them.

In this narrow case, knowing full well that I cannot clearly identify a threat, but also have a reasonable fear that something unpleasant (at the very least) is going to happen, would I be justified in unholstering my weapon & having it in hand, though hidden from plain site in some way.

Maybe it would be easier for me to ask if you somehow found yourself in this situation, would you feel justified in having your weapon in hand but hidden.

If instead I did only enough to clear my cover garment and put my hand on my still-holstered weapon, would that be any different?
 
#27 ·
because you can't drive off in your house. Why deal with this person at all leave, why stay and possibly escalate the problem and change your life forever for something that didn't have to happen.
If a person whose intentions are unknown and clearly agitated comes to my house banging on the door I not opening it the police can ask him what his problem is.
 
#28 ·
This guy exited his car, gun in hand, when he felt threatened. http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=34303
That action probably saved his life. Granted, he may have seen or suspected the other guy had a gun in hand, which may not be the case in your example.

I'm not going to sit in my car and await someone else's decision to execute me or not. If someone blocks me in and approaches my door, I'll either turn and face them in my car, my weapon in hand, or preferrably I'll exit my car quickly. Whether or not I have gun in hand when I exit will be determined by my evaluation of the threat at that moment. If threat has a weapon, my gun comes out. If threat doesn't have a weapon, my gun likely won't come out, but will be 1/2 second from coming out.

Some may choose to stay in the "protection" of their car, but I don't have bullet-proof windows or armor plating. I'm NOT going to sit in my coffin and await possible execution, with the decision for me to live or die made by some angry stranger.

We'll sort the laws out later. First order of the day is to survive.
 
#30 ·
Dang,

In Mississippi, are you house and your car the same thing? Can you in fact place your pistol on your dash and drive down the road? I bet you can have a weapon visible from outside your home property without legal action, the car is probably a different story. It is in Texas.

From what I understand the Castle Doctrine is relavent if someone else is attempting entry into your home or auto, whatever. It becomes less clear if you exit your auto, (in Texas we can exit our home), and confront the other person outside of the vehicle.

I will agree that if you exit your vehicle with your weapon ready but concealed you are still within the law, as I stated in my first post. However that may not be the best thing to do as others have stated there is relatively more protection from inside a vehicle that outside.
 
#32 ·
Dang,

In Mississippi, are you house and your car the same thing? Can you in fact place your pistol on your dash and drive down the road? I bet you can have a weapon visible from outside your home property without legal action, the car is probably a different story.
You know, I'm not positive about whether or not it can be on the dash. I never considered putting it there, so I never thought to find out! However, I know that it is legal for it to be concealed or out in the open (on the seat next to you, for example) in your vehicle. Again, I'd prefer to keep it concealed for all the reasons given all over this forum, but it is legal for it to be visible.

That was in my mind when I wrote the question. I know there is no issue carrying a weapon in my car, with or without a permit. Its only the very narrow case that I described that I was curious about...
 
#33 ·
Copy that Dang.

Yes these classes are darn expensive. :(
Which is too bad as they should be more widely available to all of us CCWs or just home defense minded citizens as this stuff could literally save your life, some other persons life (be he/she/they/it guilty or innocent of a crime), and ones self a whole lot of grief in time, money, and loss of freedoms.
Last week I dropped $175 on an upcoming 1 day/8 hr. defensive point shooting course coming up in a couple of weeks. Alot of coin (I'll also need to bring 300-400 rounds of training ammo) but I justify it as money very well spent as an extension of my health maintenance and insurance efforts. Taking the class and others will help keep me healthy and save my family money, in a pro-active manner akin to spending coin on dental checkups or eating good healthy food.

Myself I have zero interest or motive to get people to stay in their cars and as a result be killed, or as others have supposed to have folk be fearful of the law and/or criminals. That's just not the case at all.
I'm all about survival. And with that to do so with the least amount of damage done to me, so that I can go on to fight again for myself and my family another day. It's very simple to that end. I have to be there and available. It's my job.
I suspect a lot of other people here including yourself feel the same and have the same or similar responsibilities and desire to survive.

Every play is different and staying in ones car may not be the right solution/play for a given scenario. There is no right answer for everything. One just has to do their best that they can think of and take advantage of at a given time under a given scenario. In the case of a car it is in and of itself a huge weapon and a pretty well hardened barrier.
More hardened for an alleged infirm unable to otherwise flee but armed person than is air in a limited space, as was the case in Gumm vs. Turney. Yes cars have glass and bullets will bore through steel. Bullets go through air even easier than steel so that argument is beat. Further air is clear and provides zero cover while a cars body provides excellent cover for a person from within it's interior. Just ask any LEO who has ever had to make a felony stop how worrisome the cover potential for a driver possibly armed is for a person approaching from the exterior is. There are many tactical advantages being inside of a vehicle, including increased ability to escape. Gumm's cars direction was blocked by Turney but Gumms cars engine and drivetrain was not disabled. If he had stayed in his vehicle and Gumm was unarmed or for some odd reason unable to reach/deploy his firearm then use the 3K lbs. of steel and glass he has at his disposal along with the power of gearing enhanced torque as produced by his cars drivetrain. Ram your way out be it forward, back, or side to side.
Stepping out of the car to go toe to toe with some stronger more agile and healthier person who might possiblly could himself be armed is a play, though not the only option available in the playbook. Choose your own adventure.

Myself I choose to survive with the least damage possible, and an aggravated assault/manslaughter charge even if it is ultimately no billed or goes to trial and I am found 'not guilty' comes with an extreme cost in legal fees alone.
No thank you, I'm not interested in playing that game. I've got mouths to feed, and future college bills to save for, and a house I like that I'm not interested in being forced to sell or lose in exchange toward funding a 'Save Daddy' legal defense fund.
As well, I gotta be home by 6P to have dinner with my wife & kids and to walk the dog. If some fool runs up on me in life and wishes to take me away from them well then he/she/they/it are going to have a challenge because I will not be taken from my family easily nor quietly.

Look I'm just some guy on the internet. :)
I'm not an attorney nor a prosecutor, though I am directly knowledgeable of the law. I'm not a LEO, though I am knowledgeable of their procedures and have been through some LEO related training to that end though not academy...yet. I'm not a superhero nor a tough guy, though my soon to be 5 yr. old daughter thinks I can fix anything and my wife believes I will never let her or my kids down. My 1 yr.old son, he thinks I'm fun and funny and the guy to go to when someone visits our home that is unfamiliar...he flees to hide & peek from behind my leg.
Truth be told I'm just a regular guy civilian citizen like you, and I walk the streets with a mindset of self preservation and a personal mandate to at a minimum survive...by any means prudent and necessary. That is all. I'm no judge or jury and definitely not a knower of all.

Here at this forum and in your thread I'm just sharing what I've learned thus far direct/first hand, and/or second hand from instructors, and/or via third party observation and study of the trials & tribulations that others who have t-shirts have experienced such as Mr. Gumm. I'm still learning and will be, forever.
I hope to never hear or read of you, me, or a fellow member being featured at ABCNews.com, CNN, or some other news source as a victim period muchless one who has had a loss in some way or another to a BG incident even if they might otherwise have at a minimum survived.

Respectfully,

- Janq

"Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone. But if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery." - Malcolm X
 
#34 ·
in some instances exiting the vehicle is the only way to maneuver, even if to retreat. the cited example is a good one, as the BG blocked in the victim's car.
 
#36 ·
Ok, I think that finally we have hit on something here.

PJ, when you say it is tactically dumb to sit in your car, I think we can all agree with that. Those that advocate staying in the car, never, as far as I can remember, indicated that you sit and be oblivious to what is happening around you.

Staying in your car, should include being very observant, and yes you should be able to see that the person has a bat, gun, whatever if they are approaching you with hands even partially visible, and taking actions for defense or offense if the case arises. If you have your gun ready, and they walk up with a fist, bat, tire iron, or most things your car is a big advantage, even if they have a gun you can still shoot from inside the vehicle.

Being "trapped" in a car is not really all it sounds like. Most cars have at least two doors, allowing a means of exit if you have to, and in most instances mobility of the car, as has been explained repeatedly. Example that I gave weeks ago of sitting in your car and having someone try to get in while you attempted to run them down.

When people say there is safety in your vehicle from assault that doesn't mean you can't prepare yourself, it just means that you have more options than standing toe to toe with someone in a parking lot, on the street, or wherevever.
 
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