"Where alcoholic beverages are served..."

[Ben Hennessy]

No I wouldn't!!!!

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[American Pit Bull]

If I were to carry a firearm into a bar - rather I intended to consume alcohol or not - the risk of encountering some "yahoo" who is armed or unarmed but looking for trouble is much greater than anywhere else I go, including the informal range I frequent. And even though my State permits it, many bars post signs against it.

With that rational, I suppose that you are against carrying at little league games, county fairs, high school football games and the bad sections in cities... After all, people are more likely to get into verbal confrontations at events like these and we wouldn't want to enter firearms into the mix. I have seen more fights at the events that I mentioned then at establishments that serve alcohol.

I have seen several fights outside of bars; perhaps no one should be allowed to carry within 500' of such an establishment?

I carry into "bars" because they have family seating, great wings and every football game across the country on at the same time. I have an enjoyable time and I have never seen any trouble come from the visit. The only time that I watch some people get into yelling matches is while walking back to my car and that would be the case no matter what restaurant that I would have eaten in, in that part of town... Maybe the city should make that section of town a no carry zone on Fri. and Sat. nights?

And if I owned such an establishment, only LEOs in the line of duty, myself, and employees would be allowed to possess firearms in my establishment.

You wouldn't deny me the right to make this individual decision, would you?

I wouldn't deny you that right. I would just not patronize your establishment and I would let it be known that the owner enforces anti-2A and anti-CCW policies. I would post about it on forums, such as this, and encourage others not to give you business.


Maybe the bars around your area are all like Road House, prior to Swayze cleaning it up, but there aren't any like that around here. I can go to any establishment, around here, and sit down with my wife; eat greasy food and not be bothered by a soul. If someone would like to try to pluck my strings, I am able to diffuse the situation... Just as when I am walking in Pittsburgh and a hostile vagrant approaches me... Just because he wants to stir me up, doesn't mean that I have to shoot him.

It is sorry to see supposed 2A advocates that have such little faith in other 2A advocates. I am a strong believer in personal responsibility and many in this thread feel that when the magic substance, known as alcohol, enters the mix that people cannot act civilized and that the state or someone else should enforce law or policy to help the greater good.

[Wolf357]

With that rational, I suppose that you are against carrying at little league games, county fairs, high school football games and the bad sections in cities... After all, people are more likely to get into verbal confrontations at events like these and we wouldn't want to enter firearms into the mix. I have seen more fights at the events that I mentioned then at establishments that serve alcohol.

You supposition is incorrect. However, it is already illegal to carry at the Indiana State Fair, and any public school function.

I wouldn't deny you that right. I would just not patronize your establishment and I would let it be known that the owner enforces anti-2A and anti-CCW policies. I would post about it on forums, such as this, and encourage others not to give you business.

That is most certainly your prerogative.

Maybe the bars around your area are all like Road House, prior to Swayze cleaning it up, but there aren't any like that around here. I can go to any establishment, around here, and sit down with my wife; eat greasy food and not be bothered by a soul. If someone would like to try to pluck my strings, I am able to diffuse the situation... Just as when I am walking in Pittsburgh and a hostile vagrant approaches me... Just because he wants to stir me up, doesn't mean that I have to shoot him.

I no longer patronize bars. But if I owned one I wouldn't serve "greasy food" either... Yuck! That stuff will kill you.

It is sorry to see supposed 2A advocates that have such little faith in other 2A advocates. I am a strong believer in personal responsibility and many in this thread feel that when the magic substance, known as alcohol, enters the mix that people cannot act civilized and that the state or someone else should enforce law or policy to help the greater good.

Actually, anarchy is not my cup of tea. I'm not opposed to reasonable gun control laws. We just have too many unreasonable gun control laws to confuse the issue, which is exactly what the gun grabbers want.

[American Pit Bull]

I'm not opposed to reasonable gun control laws. We just have too many unreasonable gun control laws to confuse the issue, which is exactly what the gun grabbers want.

But you have to remember... Anti's only want "reasonable gun control laws", in their eyes, as well...

Infringement is infringement, in my eyes.


I do respect your statement that you do not support legislation regarding this subject. I was just trying to sway your opinion of what "makes sense" to you...

Remember... When I am enjoying the company of friends and family in Buffalo Wild Wings, while watching a football game; I am still the same responsible individual as I would be if I were watching the game at my church's recreation center. And in both instances I would like the means to defend my life while trying to enjoy myself at the same time.

Just because a location is labeled a "bar" doesn't mean that a responsible adult cannot pass the threshold without putting themselves into unreasonable danger.

If I walked into any place that "looked like trouble" it would be my personal responsibility to remove myself from that situation. I do not support laws or policy that dictate what should be an individual's choice.
You stated that you do not support laws, but your opinion is so strong that you also stated that you would choose to infringe on others' rights, if you were the proprietor. I think that you definitely sound intelligent enough to look at the situation with an open mind and re-evaluate your opinion. If you come to the same conclusion, I can respect that.

Actually, anarchy is not my cup of tea.

Neither am I... Although I am not sure how that pertains to our statements.

[Wolf357]

But you have to remember... Anti's only want "reasonable gun control laws", in their eyes, as well...

Infringement is infringement, in my eyes.

Aside from the obvious gun control laws I support that prevent felons, (Should be 'violent' felons only in my view.) and those who have been adjudicated mentally incompetent from legally purchasing firearms, I can think of several other laws pertaining to firearms that I consider necessary. But that's a subject for another thread, and I don't want to deliberately aggravate a forum administrator.

I do respect your statement that you do not support legislation regarding this subject. I was just trying to sway your opinion of what "makes sense" to you...

Thank you.

You know, it's just too easy for a post to be misconstrued by those who read it. Emoticons are a poor substitute for face-to-face conversations.

If I walked into any place that "looked like trouble" it would be my personal responsibility to remove myself from that situation. I do not support laws or policy that dictate what should be an individual's choice.
You stated that you do not support laws, but your opinion is so strong that you also stated that you would choose to infringe on others' rights, if you were the proprietor. I think that you definitely sound intelligent enough to look at the situation with an open mind and re-evaluate your opinion.

As a responsible man, you exhibit good judgment when you choose to use discretion in your daily activities. But it is the legal obligation of a proprietor to maintain a reasonably safe environment for their patrons. If they can't provide proper security for those who enter their establishment, they should relinquish their business license, or it should be revoked... And, hypothetically anyway, I can assure you, you would be more than welcome - and secure - in my establishment. But, if I sold booze to drink on the premises, you would still not be allowed to bring firearms in with you.

[ccw9mm]

If I were to carry a firearm into a bar - rather I intended to consume alcohol or not - the risk of encountering some "yahoo" who is armed or unarmed but looking for trouble is much greater than anywhere else I go, including the informal range I frequent.

Implying that someone has a lesser right to defend himself in a certain type of establishment than elsewhere?

Laws like this force that reality onto upstanding citizens. The fact is, a firearm is a legitimate tool of defense, when used honorably. The mere fact that it's carried and accessible doesn't mean it's kosher on A street but heinous on B street, or approved in a restaurant but disapproved at a parade. From the standpoint of the upstanding citizen doing the defending, location of victimization is irrelevant.

The risk of encountering a situation dramatically increases the moment you walk out your door. It increases when you approach "known" bad areas, or a bad street, or head up a blind alley alone, or go out after midnight, or enter a given establishment that happens to be a criminal hangout, or wherever. Who's to say what places will house the criminally-minded that day?

The thing to keep in mind is this: that none of the responsibility for the criminal attack on the innocent falls on the head of the innocent, no matter what form of defensive tools they are carrying. Not ever.

[Wolf357]

Implying that someone has a lesser right to defend himself in a certain type of establishment than elsewhere?

Laws like this force that reality onto upstanding citizens. The fact is, a firearm is a legitimate tool of defense, when used honorably. The mere fact that it's carried and accessible doesn't mean it's kosher on A street but heinous on B street, or approved in a restaurant but disapproved at a parade. From the standpoint of the upstanding citizen doing the defending, location of victimization is irrelevant.

The risk of encountering a situation dramatically increases the moment you walk out your door. It increases when you approach "known" bad areas, or a bad street, or head up a blind alley alone, or go out after midnight, or enter a given establishment that happens to be a criminal hangout, or wherever. Who's to say what places will house the criminally-minded that day?

The thing to keep in mind is this: that none of the responsibility for the criminal attack on the innocent falls on the head of the innocent, no matter what form of defensive tools they are carrying. Not ever.

You're preaching to the choir now. I'm not about to refute what you're saying. But I stand by what I've said about not mixing alcohol and gunpowder too.

Personally, if I wanted to enter a bar, and I was carrying, I'd lock the piece in my car before doing so.

If I chose to walk through a bad neighborhood, I'd be doing so with at least one trusted companion who could hold my firearm while I attended to business inside the bar.

BTW, I already indicated I was against any such law.

[rljohns]

Well they do exist. They are open to the public so anyone can go into but usually more than 50% off duty LEO's. I can name 4 or 5 here in St. Louis.

Interesting, So what if a non-LEO Good Guy goes into the bar can he carry and drink (< intoxicated) and be okay as one of the guys? Or will he be more likely to be arrested for doing what the LEOs are doing?

[tabsr]

Carry in bars, .04 limit if drinking. open carry is ok.

[Ben Hennessy]

Interesting, So what if a non-LEO Good Guy goes into the bar can he carry and drink (< intoxicated) and be okay as one of the guys? Or will he be more likely to be arrested for doing what the LEOs are doing?

Can't answer that because its not one of the bars I go to, to eat. But if he got drunk, I'm sure he/she would have to pay the price just like anyone else if he did something wrong. NO BODY are above the law.