Food for thought - vid games.

This is a discussion on Food for thought - vid games. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; There is some recent further news discussion about video games and their possible influence over the young re violence. I have mostly been against any ...

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Thread: Food for thought - vid games.

  1. #1
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    Food for thought - vid games.

    There is some recent further news discussion about video games and their possible influence over the young re violence.

    I have mostly been against any ''nanny'' limitations, on about anything but - I have begun to wonder whether some kids, maybe those bereft of halfways decent parenting perhaps - are influenced, sufficient to make them think that shooting someone is ''cool'' and not being cognisant of what a shooting actually does, let alone risk to themselves.

    On a game screen - everything is pretty bloodless, tho I guess seeing bad guys wiped out does have its attractions! But I do have some concerns and wonder if just maybe one of us might have to encounter a ''games freak kid'' one day - who thinks a shooting match is fun - and we in response to protect ourselves do what we have trained to do!

    Most kids from ''decent'' backgrounds do I am sure manage to differentiate - and know right from wrong and can separate the fantasy world of games from real life. It is the few I more concerned with. I don't know what the ideal answer is because I am against any restrictions by state or at Federal level - we lose enough freedoms as it is.

    Just thinking on this and throwing it open for general opinions.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Im not to worried about it i play video games always have and while it seems cool to them .. I can pretty much say when they lead starts coming there way it wont be cool most kids i know 17-18 couldnt even figure a gun out and are scared of them becuse of todays wimpy attidues.


    As much as you try to teach them they just dont wanna learn good gun stuff just want to play run and gun on the computer and then tell you everything ou should know about guns from counterstrike or something like that

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    Like you said, someone from a "decent" background should be able to differentiate between a game and real life. For the most part it comes down to parenting, good parents teach right from wrong, bad parents, well do nothing. Being a few years removed from college i've experienced the joy of some of the recent video games with some violence and they get you into a certain mindset as you play. Even as a semi-mature adult I found myself liking the violence of the game, and can see where someone less mature could stay in that mindset. The key is to revert back to a normal mindset once you are done playing. Again it comes back to a good, morale raising by the parents.

    Big thanks goes out to my parents.
    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

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    Another reason I had thought about this was - a local kid, who overall is not too bad as kids go plays a lot of these games. I don't, so am a greenhorn. He did tho a ways back say something which - reading between the lines - all but suggested he WANTED to go shoot someone, to see what it was like!

    I tried my best to council him over the difference between computer stuff and the real world - using all sorts of ploys to make him think - hard. I think I succeeded quite well but if he is typical of a small minority (I hope small!) then this is one thing that fuels my concerns.''

    I again stress - no way do I want anything banned - there is way too much of that tendency already. Most is obviously down to simple education but that means parents who care, and peers who are not looney.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Near and dear.

    My other hobby, which I have precious little time for any more, is electronic gaming. I am a card carrying member of the Nintendo generation. I played Mario and Duck Hunt when they were new releases on separate catridges. I'm not quite old enough to have seen the Atari, but you get the idea.

    Do you remember a game called Doom?

    Doom was the first big time first person shooter. It made headlines as late as the Columbine tragedy, when supposedly it was discovered the killers had made a version of their school with a Doom level editor.

    I played it like crazy. I loved blasting evil aliens and zombie space marines with a 12 gauge SxS.

    Now I have to say this for myself: My parents were 100% aware of the games I was playing and made a small effort to know something about them, even though it was mostly beyond their comprehension. They knew good and well I was splattering alien guts with my machine gun. But they also knew that I had a strong imagination and was very able to differentiate reality from fantasy.

    Now of course we have games that are a lot worse. I am playing Grand Theft Auto San Andreas in very small doses. This is not appropriate for anyone under the age of 17, but how many 12 year olds are playing this game hours on end every day? Now it's not 10% as bad as the politicians make it out to be, but it's rated Mature for a reason.

    But back to the shooting... games vary. Early efforts were horribly unrealistic. They're still really far from the real thing, but they've made some amazing progress.

    For instance in Half Life 2 the second weapon in the game is a generic 9mm pistol and your early foes are lightly armored guards. Shooting them in the shoulder has little to no effect. 2 shots to the COM will often work but not always. A Mozambique drill is actually the best strategy.

    They also do a good job in certain jobs of demonstrating if you will how real life operators function. For example in SWAT 4 you have to be very careful about how you approach a door or a hallway, and all the fighting takes place in clamped close quarters. Full Spectrum Warrior was developed with lots of input from real Marines and is a simulation of how to lead an assault on a fortified position.

    The problem is that although there is a smidgen of realism, a lot of it is missing. In the real world a single shot from a .357 Magnum revolver does not make an armored guard drop dead when you shoot him in the foot with it. Also, do you know what a "Deagle" is? It's the internet shorthand for the Desert Eagle, one of the most popular weapons in Counter Strike, a shooting game about counter terrorism that's about as realistic as Donkey Kong. It does do a few things well, but it's a game and it's designed to be fun and not realistic.

    Because of this game, there are millions of Americans who believe the Desert Eagle, or "deagle", is the best gun ever, accurate as any rifle, and more powerful, because in the game it's so deadly.

    Another big thing missing from all of these games except for perhaps the ones the NRA is associated with is that there's no manual of arms to learn, there's no consequences for pointing loaded guns at innocent people, reloading anything always takes no time at all, the guns never get cleaned, you can wade through 6 foot deep mud and your gun doesn't gum up... I could go on and on.

    Boy have I heard some whoppers. Someone told me once that he's played so much Counterstrike that he could take down a whole room of assailants no problem, just as long as he had a Desert Eagle. I will stop myself there for now. I have heard some real whoppers and I may post some more of them.

    Well one more. In GTA: San Andreas, the protagonist calls his pistol a "nine" and aims it sideways with unerring accuracy. He uses a lot of guns incorrectly and calls them stupid street names. Also, if this game was to be believed, MP5s and "AKs" are just laying around everywhere for anyone to take them. You have no idea how many kids in my class brag about how bad they would be with a "nine" and then hold their fingers in a sideways pistol shape.

    Anyone who seriously thinks they know squat about guns from video games is sorely wrong. I have had people tell me how wrong I am about real basic stuff. For instance, in an early version of Counterstrike, the ejection port for one of the pistols is drawn on the wrong side. I have had people argue with me about how it's on the correct side because they've played that game so much they know that's how it works. One guy argued with me about this at length and he thought I was talking about the "clip". He had no idea what an ejection port was. I then informed him the HK USP does not use a "clip" and it really went downhill.

    Anyway, if you're a nervous parent, the ESRB content ratings are actually very, very strict. They do a good job of deciding what's what for the most part. Personally I am against blanket rating systems for anything because they give a small group of people with an agenda to push a tremendous amount of power they should not have. You know shall issue CCW permits like they have in Kalifornia? That's exactly what a ratings system is like. It lets a small panel of people who think they know so much more than you do about what's best for you tell you what you can and can't do, have, and/or think.

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    I think there are some that it may be a problem, just as everyone that does something in excess are usually faced with a problem, but also agree that you shouldn't legislate these activities because a few kids take it to the extreme. We know how that flies. Movies de-sensitize people to violence, video games do, the nightly news does, the newspapers do, etc. It's all around us, 24 hours a day. Bad parenting is an epidemic. Like 500Mag, I like a good computer game, too. When I am finished playing one, I have usually spent my aggressions and am pretty mellowed out. My kids had a computer game that was graphically violent and put you in control of the bad guy, not the good guy. I played the game once and took it away from my kids. I bought them a replacement game that was also somewhat violent but put them in the role of the good guy. That turned out to be what determined whether a game stayed or went. If you have kids that want to play games, I would suggest getting them an online multi player game where they interact with other people, where the bad guys not real people, where they have to type alot to communicate with other players annd where there is a social stigma attached to being an AH. I found my kids actually improved their social skills when playing these games even if there is violence. I have alot of fun with it as well....
    Bumper
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    There we have it - proof re good parenting and attitudes. Euc, Bumper - both ultra level-headed folks and no problems there as I'd expect. Controlled game violence is probably usefully cathartic - certainly when it is GG against BG.

    This is probably a majority finding, that most kids see real from fantasy but - the small minority is where there are concerns. Might be what - one in a thousand. I think we'll get by, by and large - this is almost another element of the ''Hollywood'' syndrome - where what perports to be real is far from being so.

    Hard tho to tell in the end just how much the few might be influenced, toward an act of crazyness.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    Honestly, Chris, I think the kids that play a game and then go commit a crime would have done it anyway. Some may even commit their crime virtually instead of for real. One thing for sure, while they are zoned out for hours and hours in front of a TV or computer, they are off the street....
    Bumper
    Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.

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    Senior Member Array firefighter4884's Avatar
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    Euc...

    Like you said, video games are one of the hobbies that I enjoy to no end, although as a full time college student who works two jobs in the summer and volunteers about 20 hours a week, I don't have anywhere near as much time for games as I'd like.

    I loved HL 2...was waiting over a year for it to come out. And I like the games to be as realistic as possible. But, I'm one of the people who has had a relatively good upbringing, so I can bring myself back to reality without an issue.

    My current game of choice is America's Army, which goes a long way towards being realistic as far as a hit or two and you're in severe shape, etc. etc. etc.

    Personally, I think the video games have a lot less to do with crime then the lack of parenting that parents do these days. If parents don't teach children right from wrong, then those kids don't respect right from wrong.

    I also think that the move towards making schools the "primary care giver" for children doesn't help matters...

    just my 0.02.

    --Jim
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    ~Never do anything that you don't want to have to explain to the paramedics...~

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    Boy have I heard some whoppers. Someone told me once that he's played so much Counterstrike that he could take down a whole room of assailants no problem, just as long as he had a Desert Eagle. I will stop myself there for now. I have heard some real whoppers and I may post some more of them.
    And it never fails that eventually a gamer makes his way into a gun board, touts the fact that he's an expert on firearms and tactics, gets his cover blown by saying "Deagle," and scurries away with his tail tucked betwen his legs when the real experts have their say.

    I think Bumper summed it up nicely that these kids who commit crimes would have done them anyway. Bad parenting creates a mess and I do believe some kids turn out bad regardless of parenting. Bad kids channel their badness through any number of ways, and if they weren't getting engrossed through a video game, it's through something else. A kid who cannot tell the difference between pixels on a screen and reality has some deep issues.

    Serial killer Richard Ramirez claimed the ACDC album "Highway to Hell" caused him to kill.
    "Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa

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    Member Array mrshonts's Avatar
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    I've got a child on my caseload right now that is obsessed with video games. Granted, there are many other problems that I am working on with this child but video games have taken over his life. His mother does not know what to do with him so she thinks it is ok to give him his game boy to calm him down. Video games, to this child, are like a drug that eases his aggressiveness but is not something that I recommend that the mother continue to do.
    This child has been violent towards his siblings, his mother, his foster mother and also towards me on one occasion since he was not allowed to have his video game in hand. This foster child has done many other things as far as having Federal charges against him at the age of 12, and is slowly being taught that it's ok not to have his video game in hand 24/7.
    If some children were raised better from the beginning at home then there would be no need for me to even have this job but I suppose some parents want to take the easy way out of things!

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    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    mrshonts touches on another point.

    Video games for me were something to do when it was too dark to go outside, it was raining, there was no one else to play with, etc. They're a poor substitute for a childhood.

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    Here is something else to consider. I called one of the kids from my youth group to see if he would like to go to the range yesterday. I knew he was ok with guns, but did not know his level of safety, so when he came over we had a little class room session. His grandfather had taught him the 4 rules and he knew what they were reasonably well. Unfortunately, he did not follow one of them. He could not keep his finger off the trigger until he was ready to shoot. I corrected him several times on the line. He was very safe otherwise. We decided to take a break as it was warm, so when we sat down at one of the tables and talked a bit, it came out that he was very used to video game guns and that is why he never took his finger out of the trigger guard. In those games, that can be the difference between winning and losing. So, even though we may not realize it, these games do have an effect on those who play them often.
    They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.— Benjamin Franklin Historical Review of Pennsylvania.

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    Member Array Hask12's Avatar
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    Smile reality

    I played cowboys and indians when I was a kid. I haven't shot a real Indian yet.

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    Talking

    my 12yr old is a nice green bean skinny kid that spends computer time playing things like call of duty and halo and when we go shooting he does VERY good with my large size HK 45 and 16" Dissipator AR15.alot of times he will shoot the 45 better than I.did I admit that?games that I can tell only have positively affected the fact that he know how to use sights .one time we were waiting our turn at a booked up range and a large guy(275-300lb)turned and said he was gonna shoot 2 more mags of his 9mm and then we can have his spot.I said GREAT and if you want you can try out my HK if you want(he was eyballin it pretty obvious) and he said NO way thats a 45!??Iscratched my head and said OK??any way I load and lay down the 45 so my son can shoot this guys jaw dropped when my son walked up,aimed and started nailing the target.had to be there it was funny this big guy was afraid of the "45" and my 80lb son was shootin like a pro!

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