Carrying around a Presidential Candidate?

This is a discussion on Carrying around a Presidential Candidate? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Don't know why this just passed through my head... I was reading the paper this morning and saw that Thompson was going to be at ...

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Thread: Carrying around a Presidential Candidate?

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    Carrying around a Presidential Candidate?

    Don't know why this just passed through my head...

    I was reading the paper this morning and saw that Thompson was going to be at one of my local Sporting Goods stores where I also do some gun dealings with and use as a transfer FFL. So I was thinking I might go down and meet him. Then it just sort of crossed my mind, what kind of security do these guys get? I am pretty sure its not Secret Service until they are nominated. But, what other rules apply. I know of none in SC that are conditional.

    And then there is the personal choice of "should I conceal carry?" Which I always do when I go there. It is not a gun free zone. Or would that be trouble?

    And in fact... then it crossed my mind that there would be no better time TO carry than being around someone who might be a target for a nut case.

    Anyway... unless I am told otherwise... I am carrying (Maybe?). And I would not be surprised if a good percentage of the people in that store are not also. I think Fred will be well protected even without his own security!
    Last edited by cphilip; December 4th, 2007 at 01:42 AM.

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Why not.

    I have thought about that as well as carrying around a president that is holding office. Texas, as far as I have been able to find, has nothing in their concealed carry laws regarding this issue. I have never seen any federal laws regarding either. I am sure someone here has more info on that and can post a link.

    To me it is going to boil down to the laws of the state. Based on our laws, if someone of apparent authority is there and stating that you can not carry concealed into the venue then you must either leave or disarm and then enter. If they want you to disarm without specifically stating it or searching everyone, then they must hang the appropriate 30.06 signage.
    Last edited by farronwolf; December 3rd, 2007 at 02:11 PM.
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    Senior Member Array joleary223's Avatar
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    As soon as they are a player in the election they get a detail, all be it a small one. Just be on the lookout for metal detectors (hand held) and be prepared to lock your weapon in your car. He will have a security detachment of some type.
    CRIME..... LAW DEFINES, POLICE ENFORCE, CITIZENS PREVENT!

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    Senior Member Array Pitmaster's Avatar
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    The Secret Service takes their job pretty seriously in normal times. I think a paranoid personality disorder is a requirement for the job. With last week's incident expect them to ratchet it up. Personally I wouldn't carry. I don't think its worth the hassle of having to remove it later and if there is any circumstance with a BG there the last thing you want to do is pull out your weapon to help.
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  6. #5
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitmaster View Post
    ...and if there is any circumstance with a BG there the last thing you want to do is pull out your weapon to help.
    Don't plan on it.

    Remember, not all Concealed Weapons holders are wanna be cops. In fact not many of them I would expect.

    But going to see a high profile individual in an open public setting should set condition Orange now a days. Particularly after the events of last week. And then, its YOUR safety not his that concerns you. If one wanted to be safest he would just stay away. Avoiding a dangerous situation is always best. But then again, at what price to freedom and participation in the electoral process do you pay? Gotta weigh if its worth it.

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    Senior Member Array Scot Van's Avatar
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    Can't get too specific, but as someone who has family in the Presidential Protective Division of the Secret Service, I may have insight into this one.

    People can rant and rave about the Second Amendment all they want when they read about this, but griping about how your right to carry a gun to a candidate appearance is being violated won't swing ANY weight with the Secret Service agent who is standing on your neck.

    The agents take their job extremely seriously. Further, they take it personally, and are very good at spotting weapons and 'carry behavior'...that is what they do! I would hate to be the focus of a takedown in a crowded area...my face on the front page of the paper being hauled away for questioning would be a little more than I'd ever like to explain. These guys train hard for physical confrontation, and chances are you'd be nursing a few broken bones while spluttering about your rights.

    This is one time I would suggest leaving the weapon at home. At all costs. Period.
    A man in the hands of his enemies is flesh, and shudderingly vulnerable. - author unknown

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    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    Who was griping?

    And who doesn't wish and want their secret service to take their job seriously? I most certainly do.

    Whats with the attitude? I expected a little more debate rather than intimidation and threats out of this topic. I am certainly open to discussion. Not too fond of threats. Nor too fond of sweeping assumptions either. I am a little bit surprised at your hostility to the subject. But... to each his own I suppose...

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    Distinguished Member Array SonofASniper's Avatar
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    I don't take it as attitude. He is stating a fact.

    The secret service's prime goal is to protect their charge, they have the capability to do so, and the mental capacity to do it to an extreme measure with no second guessing.

    In short, I would not even think about carrying into the venue of a President or a candidate. Knowing several people who have worked with Secret service details (as local law enforcement and military), I can affirm that they don't have any sense of humor, nor any sense of your constitutional rights.
    I will support gun control when you can guarantee all guns are removed from this planet. That includes military and law enforcement. When you can accomplish that, then I will be the last person to lay down my gun. Then I will carry the weapon that replaces the gun.

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    I think you SHOULD think about it. Which is why I brought it up. "It crossed my mind". And normally I wouldn't even think about it. I would just do it. So... you see... I am thinking about it.

    But you also see that normally, many of us would just go about our business. We carry every day and don't even think about it, outside of the normal places we know not to carry. After a while you just don't even think about it. You just do it as habit.

    But, the very fact I thought about it, for this case in discussion, was the very reason I wanted to bring it up.

    There is more than one choice. Carry as normal, Don't carry because you fear that the situation might be dangerous from the standpoint of the security (that you don't know for certain will be present)... or... don't go at all for concerns for your safety being around a high profile individual that might attract trouble.

    The interesting thing was it immediately receive the "Concealed carriers are vigilantes" knee jerk. Then it got the "Spouting off your rights" accusation, when in fact no one has even done so. In fact, as the OP I was debating my rights vs my safety and debating surrendering my rights in this case vs attending at all. Which, I must point out, is a reasonable self debate to enter into.

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    Senior Member Array Scot Van's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cphilip View Post
    Who was griping?

    And who doesn't wish and want their secret service to take their job seriously? I most certainly do.

    Whats with the attitude? I expected a little more debate rather than intimidation and threats out of this topic. I am certainly open to discussion. Not too fond of threats. Nor too fond of sweeping assumptions either. I am a little bit surprised at your hostility to the subject. But... to each his own I suppose...

    WHOA!! Wait. If you're talking to me, I'm afraid something about what I wrote must have been read differently on your end. I'm very sorry, and I didn't mean to offend! I certainly meant no disrespect, implied or expressed, and wholeheartedly ask for your forgiveness.

    In my defense, I think perhaps you simply misinterpreted. I was not saying YOU were griping, and I certainly never threatened you. There is no need to be defensive, for I wasn't attacking and intended no affront.
    A man in the hands of his enemies is flesh, and shudderingly vulnerable. - author unknown

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    Senior Member Array Scot Van's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonofASniper View Post
    I don't take it as attitude. He is stating a fact.

    The secret service's prime goal is to protect their charge, they have the capability to do so, and the mental capacity to do it to an extreme measure with no second guessing.

    In short, I would not even think about carrying into the venue of a President or a candidate. Knowing several people who have worked with Secret service details (as local law enforcement and military), I can affirm that they don't have any sense of humor, nor any sense of your constitutional rights.

    THAT is what I meant and completely failed, in my clumsy way, to convey. Again, sorry you took it as anything but a response to a question. This does bring up another thought, though. With the utmost respect to you personally, I submit that hypersensitivity can cause escallation where it is probably unwarranted. If a person has a short fuse, a gun and Secret Service might make for an extremely volatile combination.

    All the more reason to attend unarmed.
    A man in the hands of his enemies is flesh, and shudderingly vulnerable. - author unknown

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    Senior Member Array joleary223's Avatar
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    Don't read too much into Scot's post he is just telling us like it is and the 2nd ammendment remark is most likely just a preventative for the more extream of us.
    I have worked in the media for the last 15 years and have been inside the Secret Service bubble and had my background checked by the Secret Service more times than I can count. SONof ASniper is spot on about the "No sense of humor" remark the only agents I have ever had a normal conversation with were the ones in Plains Georgia, they are a little more relaxed, a little. Any other agent I have tried to talk to wouldn't give me the time of day if they were on duty, and are quick to let you know that you are bothering them. I would air on the side of caution with this carry situation.
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    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scot Van View Post
    WHOA!! Wait. If you're talking to me, I'm afraid something about what I wrote must have been read differently on your end. I'm very sorry, and I didn't mean to offend! I certainly meant no disrespect, implied or expressed, and wholeheartedly ask for your forgiveness.

    In my defense, I think perhaps you simply misinterpreted. I was not saying YOU were griping, and I certainly never threatened you. There is no need to be defensive, for I wasn't attacking and intended no affront.
    Sorry Scot. I did take it wrongly then it appears. My apologies!

    I do get your point though. And its a valid one. It was one of the concerns that brought me to post this. I was sort of wanting to see a discussion that mirrored the inner debate I was having with myself when I thought of this. And, in the end, you did make the other side point very well. There ARE times when I am prepared to make the choice to surrender my individual rights for something I want to do or feel strongly about. Hate it but this may be one of them.

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    Let us know how it goes, I have wondered about that myself.
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  16. #15
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    ... or I could always leave the gun at home and wear my Tin Foil hat!

    Think thats what I will do (no... not wear the tin foil hat but go but leave the gun in the car).

    I am wanting to meet Fred. I am a supporter of his so far. And he just happens to be at a store I need to do some Christmas shopping.

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