What to do? CCW amongst GGs being corraled by LEOs post shooting

This is a discussion on What to do? CCW amongst GGs being corraled by LEOs post shooting within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Dear DC.com LEOs, I was reading up on yesterdays mall shooting in Omaha and I saw the following two pictures which made me think of ...

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Thread: What to do? CCW amongst GGs being corraled by LEOs post shooting

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    What to do? CCW amongst GGs being corraled by LEOs post shooting

    Dear DC.com LEOs,

    I was reading up on yesterdays mall shooting in Omaha and I saw the following two pictures which made me think of a scenario I had not thought through prior toward what is proper and best to do...


    Shoppers file out of the Von Maur store with their hands up after a shooting at Westroads Mall Wednesday, Dec. 5, 2007. A man opened fire with a rifle at a busy department store Wednesday, killing eight people before taking his own life in an attack that made holiday shoppers run screaming through a mall and barricade themselves in dressing rooms.
    (Kiley Cruse, Omaha World-Herald/AP Photo)


    A member of the Omaha police stands outside the Westroads mall, after a gunman opened fire at a Von Maur store in the mall, in Omaha, Neb., Wednesday, Dec. 5, 2007. Police say nine people have been killed in the shootings at an Omaha shopping mall, including the gunman.
    (Nati Harnik/AP Photo)

    Image soucres- http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3958863&page=1

    Now here is my situation...
    I'm in the mall or target or some other public shopping pen and I'm legally carrying a sidearm. In my own specific case I _never_ open carry, always I'm carrying concealed. I've got a pistol and atleast one mag if not two somewhere on my person. Likely a knife too.

    BANG...BANG BANG BANG....screaming...BANG

    Some fool has lost his ever loving mind and is now shooting the place up and people are running out as they can, and I am one of them. The po-po have responded and are on site outside directing us all to exit with our hands up and high. Okay I can do that and not expose myself, I purposefully dress and check myself in a full length mirror to this end every time I leave the house just to be sure.
    But now the problem is I'm on site at a shooting where the good guys are not known from the bad. I have 2 or 3 total loaded mags plus one and possibly a scary looking 'assault' knife on me, and my gun be it holstered is still a gun on my person. I have my wallet with multiple picture IDs including my licenses to carry as well.

    What do I do now?

    Do I if alone try to skate away amongst the confusion and leave the scene? Is doing so unlawful, albeit if I'm caught in the action might appear to be sketchy. I mean I'm not under arrest and so thus I am not by law required to stay or speak to anyone about anything.
    If I stay and the police decide to zip-tie us as they did at VA Tech as a means of holding for subsequent identification of th actual shooter(s), now what? I'm armed and to what most average Americans might feel and think I'm armed to the teeth, possibly to as much a degree as the LEO who is detaining and checking me.

    Do I openly approach an officer and be forth right indicating in so many words my name is 'Janq' and officer here is my license to carry as well as drivers license (or other form of confirmative picture ID) and I am telling you this because, sir, I am armed albeit legally and am not one of the shooters/BGs?

    Will the po-po assume I am a good guy who has not thrown a rod and gone berserk simply because I did approach the police up front and effectively turn myself into them?
    Would they assume I am a BG if I keep my lips shut, my first instinct when it comes to matters of me directly dealing with police and lawfulness, and am later one way or another discovered to have been armed even as I am so lawfully?

    What do you suggest folks like me/us do in a situation like the above per a public shooting event like say VA Tech or a public space shooting?

    Also last question, I'm beginning to think it might be advantageous to me personally if not all of us CCW to carry my carry licenses in specific on a hidden necklace. That way if and when a situation does arise I can pull and flip it out to have in easy view by anyone who might be assessing me be they upclose or from a distance such as with binoculars.

    Understand my bottom line goal would be to not hinder the police in doing their job. I'd choose to stay and offer help in the form of witness observation information if I were the only witness or one of very few. If though there are a gaggle of others who saw the same as me and are actively seeking police to report as much, then well I personally and generally have an aversion to media and all that goes with it. I'd be by default thinking to take myself and/or family home forthwith. Other folks who don't mind as much can be featured in event pics at ABCNews and/or captioned and quoted by the AP.
    At the same time though I do not want to be unlawful in any way by fact of action nor by perception of reaction i.e. being corralled and thus on the sly leaving amongst the confusion.

    DC.com LEOs I'm not sure what to do and am hoping you guys in specific having trained for this kind of thing and/or even dealt with as much might have an answer to this.
    FWIW I intend to poll LEOs I know IRL with the same scenario query in order to form my own position and plan as based on the whole of responses and suggestions.

    Thanks ahead of time for your advisement and suggestions.

    - Janq

    "Authorities said the gunman [Hawkins] can be seen on mall surveillance cameras entering the mall apparently concealing a weapon under a coat." - ABCNews.com
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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  3. #2
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    I'd go with the flow and not call attention to myself. The handgun I'd be toting won't be readily apparent. I'm reckoning that law enforcement particularly doesn't want to know about me if I can be discreet. They've got a lot more on their plates and don't need me to require their attention.

    If discovered, I'd display all cooperativeness. I've got nothing to hide, am adhering to the law, and didn't committ the act.

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    JD
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    I would say that unless you're being secured or questioned don't worry about it. No need to seek them out unless they start patting people down.

    In other words unless you are in direct contact with a LEO, keep quiet and get the heck out of Dodge.

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    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    Are you required to announce that you are a CC permit holder and carrying a gun every time you are in the vicinity of a police officer? If not I would not say anything unless they spotted it or were directly going to question you about what you saw or heard.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

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    Member Array gotammo's Avatar
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    Hands over your head and follow the crowd if they want me to stay I stay if I can go I go.
    They have enough to deal with if you did nothing wrong don't ask don't tell

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    Senior Member Array Herknav's Avatar
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    Good question. Since you didn't ask for my opinion, I'll wait and see what the cops have to say.

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    JD
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    I know, how about instead of CCW badges we get CCW beanies like the LEO pictured above is wearing. You can wear it with the bottom folded up and after an incident, you can unfold it and show CCW written in BIG white letters on the cap!

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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Or..........if you are herded with the rest of the sheep, and you observe them searching people, have your ID, CHP/CHL/CCL handy....and be cooperative.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    ! ^^ [JD]

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    Senior Member Array walvord's Avatar
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    I keep my mouth shut and follow the directions of the police. If they ask for ID, I comply as it indicates I'm a CCW holder. Other than that, I stay low and mingle with the masses until released or told to disperse.
    The most exhilarating thing in life is getting shot at with no results.
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    Ex Member Array Agent Apple's Avatar
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    All Plausible. I would go with the standard...If they notice you stop...Keep your hands up...do not make any sudden moves......explain to officer you are a carrying a weapon...you have a legal and valid licence to carry....and tell them what side you are carrying...then with weak side hand remove your ID and show them....trust me, soon as they see a movement towards a gun...the next words you will hear, is ST Peter telling you how much of an idiot you were?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    I would say that unless you're being secured or questioned don't worry about it. No need to seek them out unless they start patting people down.

    In other words unless you are in direct contact with a LEO, keep quiet and get the heck out of Dodge.
    Sound wisdom!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

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    ree
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    Quote Originally Posted by havegunjoe View Post
    Are you required to announce that you are a CC permit holder and carrying a gun every time you are in the vicinity of a police officer? If not I would not say anything unless they spotted it or were directly going to question you about what you saw or heard.
    Not a LEO's opinion, but in MN, havagunjoe and I are not obligated to reveal our status. Conventional wisdom among most of the instructors and permit holders I know is, if it's not likely to be discovered, don't bring it up. Once it seems imminent, reveal immediately. In your scenario, if it's not imminent that you're going to be discovered, they if your bringing it up is likely going to create a lot more work for the LEOs and you.

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    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    I'd flow with the crowd if that was the case, and when approached personally by an Officer, I'd state to him that I have a CCW and do have a pistol on me.
    Les Baer 45
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  16. #15
    Senior Member Array Sergeant Mac's Avatar
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    Just get yourself to safety, and sort the rest out later, if and when asked.

    The LEOs on scene have other priorities just then, and don't need any distractions. I understand that you're just trying to be helpful, and to protect yourself legally, but you're just going to get barked at.

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