EDC Gear Possibly Seen as a Liability?

EDC Gear Possibly Seen as a Liability?

This is a discussion on EDC Gear Possibly Seen as a Liability? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In another forum there was a discussion about what to carry that made me re-think. Usually I do not carry extra mags or a "wicked" ...

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Thread: EDC Gear Possibly Seen as a Liability?

  1. #1
    Member Array Puppy's Avatar
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    EDC Gear Possibly Seen as a Liability?

    In another forum there was a discussion about what to carry that made me re-think. Usually I do not carry extra mags or a "wicked" knife. (I do carry pepper spray.) I was thinking about getting a knife, and still might but some one pointed out the following:

    Suppose you are confronted by a B.G., in public and you win.... you kill him. A liberal prosecutor who is anti-gun is going to take you to town. The first thing he is going to do is ask why you carry so much firepower. The average citizen encounter rarely if ever isgoing to require more than a handful of shots. as compared to a LEO encounter with a BG. Usually in a shoot out, the B.G. is going to leave post haste if you don't get him the first couple of shots and you should be leaving post haste if he doesn't get you. The liberal prosecutor is almost certain to make a big point that with 3 mags and a wicked knife perhaps, just perhaps, you are the type of guy who goes looking for trouble. In the Mall situation, should they find that kind of firepower on you it would not surprise me at all if they cuffed and disarmed you and wait to hear all other witnesses say you weren't involved. In every mass shooting the LEOs will always look to make sure there was not more than one shooter.

    As I said it gave me something to think about as to how much fire power I want to carry and I still haven't made up my mind.

    What do the rest of you think?


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    It depends on the state laws. I can't really see how what you carry is going to make much of a differance as long as it's legal to carry.
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  3. #3
    JD
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    There are some cases where too much may be a bad thing. IE two guns, spare mags for both, a "wicked" knife and body armor.

    That's one reason to keep the knives sensible, nothing too brutal like the MOD knives, in most cases a simple "tactical folder" will suffice.

    As for the spare mags, well I always carry atleast one, sometimes two depending on my daily activiteis and travel.

    I don't think the spare mags are going to hurt you as long as they are your standard capacity mags, meaning you don't have a 33 rd mag for a Glock 19 sticking out of your pants pocket.

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    Member Array BlackBear's Avatar
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    I don't think it's that much of an issue, if you think about it. (And if you have a decent lawyer.) As long as you don't have a record of incidents in the dispatch log, or (even worse) the court records, they're going to have a hard time proving you're "looking for trouble."

    Just my thoughts, though. I personally carry a knife or two every day, as does most everyone I know (males, at least). I also intend to carry one reload, as well as the willingness to get the heck outta Dodge at the first chance.

    <--- this is in no way relevant to the discussion, this is the work of my 3-year-old.
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  5. #5
    Member Array BlackBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    IE two guns, spare mags for both, a "wicked" knife and body armor.
    ..... you don't have a 33 rd mag for a Glock 19 sticking out of your pants pocket.
    Yeah, I think the body armor would be....rather over the top. Unless you have a reason to wear it (PI, security, etc.) in which case, it's not going to be an issue. The 33 rd. mag would be excessive, as would (I think) spares for both backup guns.
    I would love to change the world, but they won't give me the source code

    Semper Vigilans et Paratus

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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Hmm....let's see...one argument (in addition to the ones above), is how many years has the individual been carrying? How many people has he killed while carrying a spare mag (or two) and a "scary" knife?

    If the answer to the first question is >1 and the answer to the second question = 0, then the premise is false.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    FWIW Puppy I have had that exact same concern, appearances.

    I live in a very much liberal town and county.
    I carry at a minimum one spare mag (+1 in the gun itself totaling two) and with regularity I'll carry a second spare either in a pocket or via a two place mag holder. Always I carry holstered as opposed to pocket carry.
    As to my knives I EDC either a Gerber Fairbarn-Applegate 'Covert' folder or a Kabar TDI. Both have when seen have resulted in an 'OMG' facial expression and/or verbal statement from folks including my wife and even the saleswoman at the store where I bought my TDIs from (she was not aware of the product in specific nor it's intended use).

    So there I am with one 1911 in Condition 1 cocked & locked, 2 or 3 mags total (1 or 2 spares), and a "wicked" knife.

    The obvious play is that if the po-po are not directly corralling me for subsequent questioning to get the heck out of Dodge. That would be my default play.
    But, if they are not allowing persons to leave which often has been the cae with these events and/or they are restraining persons which was the case at VA Tech and IIRC the Trolley Mall shooting last year, and/or they are actively running exit interviews of persons...okay then what?

    My questions in the OP were multiple toward a range of different but plausible possibilities.
    The easy and/or obvious I got that, no problem. But these other potential post event scenarios I'm not so sure about how to handle things.

    For the record in MA one is not required to pre-emptively alert an officer of ones status toward carrying nor of being licensed.
    The law states the following...

    PART I. ADMINISTRATION OF THE GOVERNMENT

    TITLE XX. PUBLIC SAFETY AND GOOD ORDER

    CHAPTER 140. LICENSES

    EMPLOYMENT AGENCIES

    SALE OF FIREARMS

    Chapter 140: Section 129C. Application of Sec. 129B; ownership or possession of firearms or ammunition; transfers; report to executive director; exemptions; exhibiting license to carry, etc. on demand

    (u)...

    Any person who, while not being within the limits of his own property or residence, or such person whose property or residence is under lawful search, and who is not exempt under this section, shall on demand of a police officer or other law enforcement officer, exhibit his license to carry firearms, or his firearm identification card or receipt for fee paid for such card, or, after January first, nineteen hundred and seventy, exhibit a valid hunting license issued to him which shall bear the number officially inscribed of such license to carry or card if any.

    Source - http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-129c.htm
    Even still to date when ever pulled over by a police or interacting with one for questioning (moving violation and the other a fender bender) I have always chosen to alert them even as they have never otherwise asked me directly.
    I do so because I don't want to wind up with an officer being startled or worst me in the news tased or some such misunderstanding craziness.

    I guess the consensus here is play it by ear, slip away if you can and/or are allowed to do so, and keep my mouth shut if not able/allowed to slip away (?).
    My wonder is how would a police react to later find out upon asking my name and for ID and/or to pat me down that they discover I'm carrying and I didn't say anything sooner as they are on site looking for an active shooter and here I am looking like to some I'm loaded for bear.

    Appearances.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  8. #8
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    You can't sit around worrying about what a liberal prosecutor is going to say. He is going to attack you for anything and everything you do if they do decide to bring charges. (Which isn't as common as some here would have you believe.) Whether you have a gun, reload, knife, and pepper spray or you have a 5-shot revolver with no reload. Carry what you believe is best, and worry about the rest if you have to.

    I personally carry at least one reload, maybe two; a Surefire flashlight; and a folding knife of some sort.
    "The only people I like besides my wife and children are Marines."
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    Senior Member Array f8lranger4x4's Avatar
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    Well I would tell him I was a boy scout and tought to be prepared.

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    I think everybody should carry a knife. That is the one item I use more than any other that I carry. It can not only be used for self defense, but for more mundane tasks like opening the mail....etc...

    I carry a knife, but I do not carry OC or pepper spray for a couple of reasons:

    IMHO, IANAL!...so don't flame me....

    1) If I'm in a situation that requires anything more than H2H....I'm not going to take precious seconds, to decide if the situation requires OC -OR- a firearm. That extra time will put me even further behind the curve than I should have allowed myself to begin with.

    2) I train with a handgun (regularly), I don't train with OC. (Maybe I should, but I don't.) OC & other such devices aren't 100&#37; effective. I am also at risk of being adversely affected by the spray if outdoors & the wind blows the wrong way.

    3) I already carry a lot of EDC gear without adding more. (firearm, extra mags, flashlight, knife, multitool, phone, lighter, pen, wallet ...etc..)

    4) I would think that if I had OC & instead used a firearm to defend myself, that might be used against me......A lawyer might come after me with 'You're Honor, he had a non-lethal OC spray, he could have used instead of ventilating my client with his 1911.'
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goawayfarm View Post
    I think everybody should carry a knife. That is the one item I use more than any other that I carry. It can not only be used for self defense, but for more mundane tasks like opening the mail....etc...

    I carry a knife, but I do not carry OC or pepper spray for a couple of reasons:

    IMHO, IANAL!...so don't flame me....

    1) If I'm in a situation that requires anything more than H2H....I'm not going to take precious seconds, to decide if the situation requires OC -OR- a firearm. That extra time will put me even further behind the curve than I should have allowed myself to begin with.

    2) I train with a handgun (regularly), I don't train with OC. (Maybe I should, but I don't.) OC & other such devices aren't 100% effective. I am also at risk of being adversely affected by the spray if outdoors & the wind blows the wrong way.

    3) I already carry a lot of EDC gear without adding more. (firearm, extra mags, flashlight, knife, multitool, phone, lighter, pen, wallet ...etc..)

    4) I would think that if I had OC & instead used a firearm to defend myself, that might be used against me......A lawyer might come after me with 'You're Honor, he had a non-lethal OC spray, he could have used instead of ventilating my client with his 1911.'
    ....Don't forget the evil, death-dealing hollowpoint bullets that only target children and schools
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

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    It is good to consider possible consequences to our choices and common sense should prevail but let's not forget, the primary objective is to first survive!

    You can "what if" yourself to death but if you have prepared and acted reasonably and you have made it through alive... that's the best you can do.
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

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    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

  13. #13
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    Let us assume (we hope) that if in a lethal threat confrontation and you win - AND can say with absolute certainly that you feared for your life, I rather doubt how much ''equipment'' you have will matter. (RPG's excluded )

    It would be fair to state in one's defence after a justifiable shoot that you take personal responsibity for own safety and thus stay prepared for most contingencies - dedication if you will ... no half-hearted measures - a full commitment to staying alive - and if that has just been achieved with a proven bad guy attack - shouldn't matter.

    If however a shoot was very borderline - with lots of question marks over the justification - then perhaps an ''over-armed'' sitation could prove tricky - if attacked by a strong prosecution.

    I'll stick with my modest 'survival package' and prepare for worst but sure as heck hope for the best.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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  14. #14
    Senior Member Array hsuCowboy98's Avatar
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    It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

    The OP said that LEO's need extra mags, while a citizen might not. I disagree.

    People who carry a gun with the intention to use it in a gun fight carry extra mags. On-duty or off duty, I will carry at least 2 mags, and usually a BUG.

    Citizen or LEO, a gun fight is a gun fight, and the goal is to walk away. If you have arrived at the point where lethal force is authorized in your mind, and you feel you can articulate that, then you can easily articulate why you had what you had with you at the time, so long as it is legal.
    Fear No Evil.

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    Ex Member Array jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    i always carry a spare mag, and at least two knives, at all times. one knife will be a large folder, the other will be a small fixed blade or folder. i'm sure that if you come in front of a liberal, gun hating DA, it wouldn't matter if you were carrying a 2 shot dixie derringer or a glock 18, and a crkt K.I.S.S. or a large bowie knife; he's gonna try and crucify you no matter what. the most you can do is stay legal, and stay safe.

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